European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Countess of Mar and Lord Newby

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 7th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, the noble Lord will recall the attitude that we took when we discussed the previous referendum. We strongly believe that 16 and 17 year-olds should get the vote, not just in referendums but more generally.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, would the noble Lord kindly address the House rather than the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, because we on this side cannot hear what he is saying?

[Lord Newby]

I apologise. I was saying that, when we discussed this matter previously in respect of the referendum that we have just had, we argued strongly that 16 and 17 year-olds should get the vote, but the details of any future referendum would have to be discussed in the context of a new referendum Bill, which Parliament would have to pass. Perhaps I may make a little progress.

Since Committee, I have had the chance to read the speeches of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble Lord, Lord Bridges. The noble Baroness’s view was that referenda are best avoided and that the deal at the end of the Brexit process would be far too detailed and complicated to leave to the people to decide. However, she went on that,

“if, as time and negotiations progress, there is genuine evidence of a widespread public demand for a second referendum, that should be listened to”.

I suppose that I should be grateful for that willingness to keep an open mind, but I simply do not think that it goes far enough.

The Minister said that a confirmatory referendum should not be contemplated because trust in politicians was so low, and that,

“There is a sense that Parliament is divorced from day-to-day life”.


Well, we know what the Government’s response to that has been: to try to cut Parliament out of the decision-making process altogether and just to take the decisions themselves. Furthermore, the Government have assiduously argued that asking the people to take the final decision on the most important issue facing the country in generations and on which they have already had a say is anti-democratic. That argument simply defies logic.

The Minister then said, quoting the White Paper, that,

“people are coming together to make a success”,—[Official Report, 27/2/17; cols. 638-39.]

of Brexit. It is certainly the case that business is taking decisions based on the assumption of Brexit. That helps to explain why banks are moving thousands of staff outside the UK, why Ford is downsizing its plant at Newport and why Herriot-Watt is cutting staff. But this is not exactly “coming together”.

Nor are divisions within the country reducing. As I said at Second Reading, the anger of those who wish to leave the EU, which was evident before the referendum, is now being increasingly matched by the anger of those who wish to remain—particularly young people, who see their life chances being jeopardised. I am afraid that there is simply no happy consensus emerging about the alleged sunny uplands of being outside the EU—quite the opposite.

Debt Management Organisations

Debate between Countess of Mar and Lord Newby

Monday 28th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, the Government are already committed to funding credit unions to a considerable extent. On the issue of free money advice, the Money Advice Service has allocated some £38.1 million this year to fund free debt advice, which will be given through organisations such as Citizens Advice and StepChange.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, I had just such a cold call this morning and the person who made it did not leave their address or their name. It was a tape-recorded message. Is there anything that I can do about that? Can the Minister say what will be done to protect people who have pension funds from being scammed? There was a lot about that on the radio this morning.

[Lord Newby]

The FCA has very considerable powers to regulate all financial services firms in this area. In the sector we are looking at, it took on responsibility earlier in the year. It has introduced stricter rules and is putting in place new authorisation processes. But if the FCA finds that despite the way in which it is tightening up its procedures, there are still significant problems in respect of cold calling, it has the powers to intervene further.

Economy: House Prices

Debate between Countess of Mar and Lord Newby

Thursday 3rd July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

Yes it does, my Lords.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, is there a sufficiently skilled workforce in the building trade after the doldrums that it has been in for such a long time? Are there enough people who have all the skills required to build houses? Has the Minister considered the modern prefabricated buildings that I understand can be put up within a week, in order to speed up housebuilding?

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, there are reports just today about skills shortages and rising wages in the construction sector. With the number of housing starts having increased so rapidly, you would expect that to be the case. Incidentally, when one talks about the free movement of labour within the EU, it is worth remembering that were it not for highly skilled technicians from other parts of the EU, the position regarding employment within the construction sector and shortages would be much worse. As the noble Baroness may know, we are investing an awful lot in apprentices and apprenticeships. In the medium term, that will be crucial in order to get to a new and higher level of building, but it takes quite a time to train someone to be, for example, a highly qualified electrician.