Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Debate between Countess of Mar and Duke of Montrose

Tuesday 25th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as an honorary associate of the British Veterinary Association and as someone who has been breeding animals—and every now and again a dog.

I take it that this legislation will prevent anyone other than a breeder from selling an animal under six months. That will tidy up many of the pet shop problems which we all regard as serious.

I hope my noble friend the Minister will be able to clear up a couple of matters. He and the Secondary Legislation Committee have said that local authorities will have to enforce these regulations, and my noble friend Lady Byford asked whether they would get any financial assistance to do so. The BVA is asking that anyone using a dog for breeding should be registered with the local authority. What is the Government’s view of this proposal? Will it be left to local authorities to enforce?

The 2018 regulations are to do with animals as pets. Can my noble friend clarify whether this could also include working dogs? We have had to go through the question of the docking of dogs’ tails, and in Scotland it has been allowed that working dogs do not have to have their tails docked. I am thinking particularly of working dogs—shepherding dogs, and possibly shooting dogs too, but I am more familiar with shepherding dogs. They are often bred by a working shepherd who does not want the job of rearing them. Some people are well known as good-quality rearers and will take the young dogs and bring them on. The dogs will be outside the scope of the regulations because they will be over six months old, and at that stage they will go to somebody who will train them. It is possible that someone could be hired to do that job but at present there is a turnover of animals in this area. I would be interested to hear whether there is any possibility of the regulations covering working dogs.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, what is the position regarding inspectors? I ask that because I was approached by a young man in our local authority who has birds of prey and various wild animals that he takes to shows. He applied for a licence and was told that it would cost him nearly £1,000, but friends of his in neighbouring local authority areas are being charged between £150 and £400. I inquired of the chief executive of our local authority why this was and he told me that it was because it had no inspectors up to level 3 and that a veterinary inspection would be required. I then checked and was told that there were very few training facilities taking inspectors up to level 3—in fact, there is only one—and the courses are fully booked months ahead. In addition, they cost £900, according to the chief executive. Will the same thing apply to people who want a licence for puppies and kittens? Will they be charged for a veterinary inspection because there are no level 3 inspectors? If not, what will happen?