Restoration and Renewal of the Palace of Westminster

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Tuesday 12th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mark Spencer]

I honestly think we can do both. I think we can get to an understanding and a place where, with expert advice, we can get value for taxpayers’ money, where we can progress this as rapidly as possible and where we can take a more common-sense approach.

The Commissions have taken all these points on board, carefully assessed the options and sought independent advice on the best way forward. The Commissions, with cross-party representation and independent and external members, have taken a unanimous decision that it is necessary to revise the approach to the governance and mandate of the R&R programme.

We need a governance structure that is responsive to the requirements of the parliamentary context, is accountable to Parliament and is better placed to build the necessary consensus. The Commissions have judged that this can be best achieved through an in-house structure. The Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Act will remain in place and will continue to provide the statutory underpinning.

The current Sponsor Body will be abolished, and its functions under the Act will be transferred to two corporate officers who will become the statutory duty holders. The Act provides for this flexibility by allowing for the Sponsor Body to be abolished and for its functions to be transferred. The proposed in-house governance structure will consist of two tiers: a client board on which the two Commissions have strategic oversight; and a programme board with external expertise that will be central to resolving critical choices and priorities.

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

One of the reasons why those of us who sat on the Joint Committee seven years ago—it is sad that so much time has gone by—did not look to do this in-house was that we judged that the expertise did not exist in-house. Although there are some fantastic people working here, I am afraid the House does not have a great track record of delivering projects cost-effectively. Why does my right hon. Friend think this will now somehow change?

[Mark Spencer]

That is a little disingenuous. The cast-iron roof project, for example, was delivered in-house and was delivered on time and on budget, which demonstrates that the House authorities do have that ability, but I think they would also recognise that they do not have the expertise, which is why it will be brought in. The programme board will be the structure that has experts who are able to advise and come forward with proposals.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Spencer]

The hon. Lady is right to draw attention to that. One of the fundamental problems is that, because restoration and renewal was on the horizon, what was happening was that a piece of masonry, for example, would become unsafe; a scaffold would be erected to retrieve that piece of masonry, and the subsequent decision-making process would end in, “Well, there’s no need to do anything too dramatic here, because it will be swept up with restoration and renewal in the future.”

Under this new system, instead of putting the scaffold up and bodging it—for want of a better expression—we will be able to get up there and mend it properly once for the next 50 years, rather than waiting for restoration and renewal to come and sweep the project up. The Victoria Tower is a really good example. It was being delayed because restoration and renewal was on the horizon, but we will now be able to bring that project forward, get on with it and do it properly for once in a generation. We will be able to crack on with it in the short term. There is a way to save money for the taxpayer, expedite some of these repairs and make sure that the process happens in a more timely way.

[Chris Grayling]

I am happy to accept my right hon. Friend’s assurances that he will press ahead and ask the Delivery Authority to set out for us what that eight years would entail. However, I hope that he has taken from this debate tonight a sense that those of us on both sides of the House who have been involved in this programme over many years—he has come to this relatively fresh—have a clear sense of the need for urgency. Can I ask him to come back to this House with options really very quickly? Otherwise, he will find a lot more pressure coming from Members on both sides of the House.

[Mark Spencer]

That message has been well and truly received, and I am grateful for the contributions that have reinforced it.

We have heard about the depth of affection that working in this building brings, and we have heard about Members’ affection for it. I know that everyone who has been critical in a friendly way this evening has done so with the best of intentions and the best of motivations. I pay tribute to those who have taken part in the debate. We have a huge responsibility to protect this building for future generations to make sure that, in another 300 years, it stands here as proudly as it has done through two world wars, as a beacon of parliamentary democracy for the nation. I commend the motion to the House.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Thursday 19th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Again, I do not know enough about the detail of the case. Perhaps the hon. Lady could write to me, and I will ensure that she gets a proper response, but I do not have detailed knowledge of the farm-gate price situation in Northern Ireland.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

On the frontline of the security of this nation are our armed police officers, who are often put in very dangerous circumstances and have to make a decision in a split second. If they are forced to make that decision, they then face months of scrutiny over whether that decision, taken in a split second, was right or wrong. Can we have a debate on the process of analysing those decisions and the scrutiny under which those officers are put?

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We are in the process of recruiting more than 1,000 new armed officers as an essential part of the strategy that we now have to combat the risk of terrorism in this country. If an incident does take place involving an armed officer, it is important to ensure that, for the protection of that officer as much as anything else, it is properly checked and investigated. We must not get ourselves into a position where people do not want to be armed officers and are not willing to act because they are concerned about the consequences for themselves.

Standing Orders (Public Business)

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The irony of this, as I keep saying, is that both the hon. Gentleman and the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson)will continue to be able to vote on matters relating to health, education and other issues in relation to the constituencies of Government Members, with the exception of those who represent Wales and Scotland, whereas they cannot vote on those issues in relation to their own constituencies. That is the point of the devolution settlement that Labour set up.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

Will the Leader of the House reflect on the abbreviation for this legislation, which seems to have been boiled down to EVEL? Will he reflect on changing it to something more appropriate, such as laws only votable in England? The House could then could vote for LOVE, not EVEL.

[Chris Grayling]

I cannot confess to being the greatest fan of the acronym, but, sadly, that had been set before I came along. I rather like my hon. Friend’s alternative. Certainly, as I always say to my friends in the Scottish National party in this House, we may disagree violently about the future of our Union and we may disagree on a whole range matters, but I value our debates and their presence in the House. We will continue to have a lively time, but I hope also a friendly time, working together.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Thursday 11th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Any stabbing is both unacceptable and tragic for those involved. It would not be right for me to comment on the specific case because it is under investigation, but, by chance, the Home Secretary is sitting on the Bench near me and will have heard the hon. Gentleman’s comments. I know that she will choose to respond in due course when she can, given that the matter is currently being investigated.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

The loss of a family pet is a painful process, but it is amplified when the loss of that pet is caused by malicious poisoning by a neighbour. May we have an urgent debate on sentencing for the crime of poisoning animals and on animal welfare issues?

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend has obviously experienced a shocking circumstance in his constituency. These are dreadful acts, and of course it is right and proper for them to be dealt with by the full force of the law. As I said earlier, the Home Secretary is sitting next to me, and I am sure that she heard what my hon. Friend has said.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Thursday 4th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The blue badge guidance always has to be fairly tight in order to ensure that people cannot abuse the system. One of the things that we can all do as constituency Members of Parliament is challenge the local authorities when they get it wrong. I have done so in the past and I know that the hon. Lady will do so now to ensure that the right decision is taken.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

The Leader of the House may be aware that Thoresby colliery will close in July this year. Will he encourage the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills to come to the Chamber to make a statement about the measures that will be put in place to assist the employees there in retraining and reskilling so that they can move on to jobs elsewhere?

[Chris Grayling]

Extensive support is now available across government for those unfortunate enough to be caught up when a business closes, be that support through Jobcentre Plus or the skills development work done in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be in this House in a couple of weeks’ time. I encourage my hon. Friend not only to raise these issues then, but to go directly to the Department now to make sure that the teams there that can help in these matters are ready and available when the change comes.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Thursday 28th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I welcome the hon. Lady to the House. She makes an important point. We recognise that there are still some deep-rooted social problems in our communities. That is why we established the troubled families programme and why we will do everything we can to improve the situation in those families. It is a central part of what the Government have worked on and will continue to work on. The best way of ensuring that all families in all parts of the United Kingdom have the chance to prosper is by getting more people into work and getting our economy growing so that everyone shares in that prosperity.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

May we have an urgent debate on BT’s provision of broadband within Nottinghamshire for areas such as Lamin’s Lane and Burntstump Hill, where constituents of mine have been connected because of a fault in the system, only to be disconnected later because BT wants to reconnect them to a system that does not supply superfast broadband?

[Chris Grayling]

I do not know about the circumstance to which my hon. Friend refers, although it sounds as if something has gone badly amiss in his constituency. I have no doubt that he will be champing at the heels of BT to ensure that that situation is rectified. He will have the chance in the debate next week on the economy to raise matters related to broadband, which is an important part of our strategy of ensuring that this country has the modern infrastructure—not simply transport but IT infrastructure—that we will need to continue the economic progress we have made in the past five years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Mark Spencer

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

T8. I wonder whether the Secretary of State might update the House on discussions he has had with the Home Office about deporting foreign national prisoners straight away when they complete their sentence in the UK.

[Chris Grayling]

We have regular contacts at both ministerial and official level and, of course, we now have the benefit of the presence of the former Immigration Minister, who brings knowledge of both sides of that challenge to our team. We intend to continue to work as hard as we can to secure the deportation of offenders after their sentences, as well as to transfer prisoners when we can during their sentences.