Bottom Trawling: Marine Protected Areas

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Westminster Hall

[Chris Grayling]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes some very good points. This is about proper, careful stewardship of the ocean and the ocean floor. As he rightly says, if these things are done well, it can benefit everyone.

Of course, there is another issue, because this is not just about scalping the seabed; it is also about our ability to tackle climate change and absorb carbon. It is not just the fish and other creatures that suffer because of bottom trawling. Kelp and seagrass are enormously important as well, and are a crucial part of improving our absorption of carbon emissions. We know that bottom trawling can destroy them as well, so there is a variety of reasons why we need to deal with this issue.

One irony is that, from time to time, I get messages from constituents who did not back Brexit asking me what benefits it has brought the country. I remember many people saying that Brexit would mean the destruction of all our environmental protections and that Britain would become a pariah nation, but the opposite is true. We can now do something that we could not do before. Bottom trawling was just a reality of the common fisheries policy, and the Minister would have struggled to take the steps that I have been pushing for. We would have had real difficulty overcoming either the vested interests in fishing fleets elsewhere or those countries that have no coast and that were not terribly interested in the issue in the first place. We are now free to act, and I thank the Minister for what she has done so far—the issue today is not a Minister who is saying no. I know she is sympathetic, for which I am grateful. I also know that she continues to face international pressures, and I encourage her to keep resisting those.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is absolutely right that we have to be mindful of the livelihoods of those who work on smaller fishing boats and in the ports around the UK. My Bill was not about getting rid of all of that. History shows that many ports are home to people who are good at managing their fisheries. It is the large boats that we need to deal with, and the Minister has made a good start with the initiation of a ban in four of the protected areas, including Dogger Bank. Well done to her for that step in the right direction.

I asked for this debate so that I could ask the Minister and her officials to move faster on their plans and so that I could share concerns about the approach taken so far. We really need to get on with this as rapidly as possible. There will be more and more pressure in this place to cover not just the first handful of MPAs but a whole raft of them. Although there has been a good start, I sense that progress so far is still much slower than most of us would wish. Of course, officials will want to take a careful and methodical approach, but there is not a lot of time to spare. The more time we take, the more damage is done, and the more damage is done, the longer the ecosystems will take to recover.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Not only is damage done, but the damage is increasing. In 2019, Greenpeace found that the amount of time supertrawlers spent fishing in marine protected areas had more than doubled, to 2,913 hours, in that year alone. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that we have a real opportunity now to ban supertrawlers in every single MPA as a quick early win and then to help fishers move to different gear types to be more sustainable in their methods?

[Chris Grayling]

It is, as the hon. Gentleman says, the big vessels that are the problem. I am sure the Minister will take a careful note of those comments, with which I am extremely sympathetic.

There is another point of concern that I would like to put to the Minister. Not all of the protected areas are uniform in their underwater terrain. There are areas where there are reefs of great sensitivity surrounded by areas of sand on the seabed. That is just the reality of MPAs. The Marine Management Organisation, which is implementing the bans, seems not to be taking a uniform approach to all the protected areas. In some, it is deciding to ban bottom trawling in part of the MPA but not all of it. Effectively, it is saying, “You’ve got sandy seabeds, and they are not affected at all.” I can understand, in theory, the logic behind that. The argument has been made to me by some in the fishing community, but I ask the Minister to think carefully about this.

First, it is going to be incredibly difficult to police. Who will be monitoring the movements of a trawler to establish whether it has approached or gone over the top of a protected reef?

Seaborne Freight

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Monday 11th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State has said that no money has been spent on this process, so could he tell us how many of his officials were working for free during this process? He says no money has been spent, but what about the embedded cost? The time each official and each Minister has spent on this project is cost, so will he publish the costs of how much time has been spent on this debacle? If he will not resign, will he at least apologise for this mess?

[Chris Grayling]

Dear oh dear, they keep trying, don’t they? We have hundreds of civil servants across Whitehall working on no-deal preparations to make sure that we are ready in case it happens. I am clear that we do not want no-deal, but we are taking the necessary precautions. The problem is that the Labour party does not believe that should be happening.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Thursday 10th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We will hold all the companies that have presented us with proposals to the terms of their contracts.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

5. Whether the next CrossCountry rail franchise will include a requirement to purchase new rolling stock.

Seaborne Freight

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am not going to comment on the commercial plans of Seaborne Freight. I am satisfied that it will have the ships necessary to operate the service, but if it is not able to deliver them, it will not be paid.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Brittany Ferries has been awarded a no-deal ferry contract but, unlike Seaborne, it actually has ferries. No-deal sailings into Millbay port in Plymouth will increase traffic by 50%. Will the Secretary of State point to where on the 200 metres of tarmac between the ferry port and Plymouth city centre he expects facilities to be built for the lorry park, the customs checks, the veterinary checks and the environmental health checks?

[Chris Grayling]

Let me say two things. First, I thought it would be good for the port of Plymouth to have more traffic; I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman does not agree. Secondly, the reality is that, as I said earlier, we do not intend to impose a hard border for traffic coming into the United Kingdom. We intend to focus on the fluidity of trade as our priority. It will be security first and fluidity second, and other matters will come well afterwards. We are not imposing a hard border on this side of the channel.

Drones: Consultation Response

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Monday 7th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

That is the central point: we could have done everything imaginable in legal terms, but if somebody is determined to cause an attack of this kind, they will do so. It is now very much about understanding what technology can make a difference. In technological terms, this was very much a learning exercise, because there simply was not an off-the-shelf system available to deal with it. It took a lot of effort to work out what competencies were there and to assemble them in a way that could work. It was the first time that had been done anywhere in the world. We now understand more clearly how to deal with an attack such as this one, and others will have learned from it so that the kind of terrible events that my hon. Friend mentioned can never happen in such a situation.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

I declare an interest: my boyfriend was one of those people who were supposed to land at Gatwick. Although he landed a few days later, he did so safely, and that was appreciated.

It is right that technological solutions must keep pace with the threats that we face. What consideration has the Secretary of State given to live-update geofencing to make sure that if people are accidentally flying a drone near a restricted airspace—around not only airports but defence installations—that drone will not be able to access that airspace and that it can be live-updated by the authorities to make sure that drones do not enter any restricted airspace?

[Chris Grayling]

This is one of the areas that is currently being worked on at a European level. We are working with EASA on this and we expect regulations to come forward during the implementation period that we would want to be part of in any case, because these technologies are made not just in one country. The point about geofencing is an important one, as is the ability to include technology that enables us to track a drone and to know which drone it is. My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) made the very real point that a number of these machines are assembled by amateurs on a fair scale, which is why we need the technology to take them down as well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Thursday 5th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I always hope that when a new road is put in place, provision will be made for other users—cyclists and pedestrians—alongside that road, particularly in respect of a major road like the A358. That new road will of course mean that there is substantial additional capacity on the old road, which will become much less congested, but I am sure that Highways England will be looking carefully into how it can make provision for all road users.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The A38 from Exeter to Plymouth closes too often owing to accidents and congestion. Will the Secretary of State look favourably on funding bids from Plymouth City Council and Tory-run Devon County Council to upgrade this road, address accident blackspots and start the much needed process of extending the M5 from Exeter to Plymouth?

[Chris Grayling]

I am obviously aware of the pressures on the A38 and, indeed, of the pressures on roads north and west from Plymouth. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Mrs Murray) who, last week, made a very strong argument to me when I visited Cornwall for improvements to the west of Plymouth. That is something that we are looking at very carefully.

Airports National Policy Statement

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend is right about the importance of the proposal in terms of not only connections to places such as Swindon, Bristol, the south-west and south Wales but, as I said earlier, providing better opportunities for staff who live more locally to get to work on the train. I absolutely accept the importance of the project. It is part of our investment plans for the next control period on the railways, and my expectation is that it will be open in good time for the runway.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State will know from my questions in the Transport Committee that I wanted his Department and Heathrow to do much more about getting people to the airport by public transport in a two-runway world, let alone in a three-runway world. We need to see the money, not just hear the soundbites, so will he assure us that western rail access is now fully funded? How much of the funding will be contributed by Heathrow?

[Chris Grayling]

As far as I am concerned, that is fully funded, and we intend to extract as much money as possible from Heathrow for all the improvements—it needs to make a substantial contribution to this, but the project will be delivered.

Rail Timetabling

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Monday 4th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

That has to be dealt with, and we will communicate that to GTR. If there are fewer trains running, they should be not short-form trains.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State told the House that sorting out the timetable chaos was his Department’s No. 1 priority. That is a phrase he has used before about Dawlish and the resilience work in the far south-west, which was apparently his No. 1 priority. What is his No. 1 priority, and will Northern and GTR passengers have to wait the years that passengers in the far south-west have had to wait for action on Dawlish?

[Chris Grayling]

The work on Dawlish has already started, as the hon. Gentleman knows. In terms of the infrastructure period that is about to start, delivering that work is, in my view, the most important capital project in the country. The most important priority on my desk now is self-evidently to get this sorted.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Thursday 24th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

There are benefits of digital technology, but my hon. Friend will be aware that this is a difficult week on the railways, as I have explained. It has happened because of the late delivery of the timetable. This is the second time that it has happened in six months. I have already had discussions with Network Rail about this. It must not happen again. What the digital railway will do is create a railway that can run more trains more reliably. It gets rid of the risk of traditional signal failures, which are a big part of the frustrations that many commuters face, and I want to see, over the next few years, our stopping replacing old-fashioned traffic-light signals and using digital technology instead.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

A digital railway is vital for improving capacity in the far south-west but will not necessarily improve journey speeds. If our journey times are to be long, they at least need to be productive, so can I ask the Secretary of State to commit to working with colleagues at the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport to improve our mobile and wi-fi signals to remove all the notspots in the far south-west, especially on rail journeys to Plymouth?

[Chris Grayling]

Sometimes, we disagree across the Chamber, but on this one I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman. We are looking at the best options to do this. I think that we should be getting mobile operators to put up more masts down the route, and particularly as we move to a 5G network, I want to see that 5G network up and down the railway—and not just for passengers; it helps the digital railway as well. On this one, I am absolutely with him.

East Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I attribute the problems on that line to two things: first, an unrealistic bid that has failed; and secondly, old rolling stock that is being replaced and an infrastructure that needs an upgrade and is going to get it. That is what has caused the operational problems—notwithstanding that, passenger satisfaction on that railway line is 92%,which I think is pretty good.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The cross-party Public Accounts Committee said last month that the Department for Transport’s forecasted earnings from the east coast franchise were wildly wrong. Given today’s announcement, how can we have faith in the Secretary of State’s Department’s handling of it, and will he now apologise for presiding over yet another privatisation disaster on our railways?

[Chris Grayling]

What I have done is take decisive action to deal with a problem that needs to be addressed to make sure that we protect passengers. That is what everybody would expect.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Thursday 1st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The European Commission has published its negotiating position on aviation links. There have been a lot of scare stories around over the last few months, but the Commission has said that in all circumstances—whether or not we have a trade deal, and whether or not we have an implementation period—there must be an aviation agreement. There is a recognition on the Commission’s side that the flights need to continue, and there is an absolute commitment on our side. I met my Spanish counterpart yesterday, and we agreed that it was essential for flights to continue. We will all work to ensure that there is absolutely no interruption in services.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State understand the severe disappointment and anger in the far south-west about the sham of a south-west rail strategy that was published yesterday? Will he now do the right thing, and, instead of re-spinning the £50 million that has already been announced, match Labour’s £2.5 billion rail investment plan for the south-west?

[Chris Grayling]

I will take no lessons from the party that did nothing for transport in the south-west over a long period. This Government are doing things that Labour never did—dualling the A303, providing brand-new trains, and resignalling in Cornwall to increase the number of rail services. The hon. Gentleman should be embarrassed about his party’s record.

Rail Update

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The prize for patience and perseverance goes to Luke Pollard.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Fragmentation of the great western franchise risks locking in a poor deal for rail for the far south-west, so will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to match the commitment given by the shadow Secretary of State for Transport to fund the peninsula rail taskforce recommendations for faster journeys and a more resilient railway, and to ensure that we can unlock the investment we need for Plymouth, Devon and Cornwall?

[Chris Grayling]

I reiterate my point that this is a consultation, and I want views from all sides. We will make a change only if it is the right thing to do. We are not going to create a little fringe franchise just for Devon and Cornwall, cutting them off. If we make a change, it will be to have much more of a south-western franchise serving the region, providing good links locally.

The peninsula rail taskforce’s top recommendation was that we need to deal with the issue of the cliffs at Dawlish. The work on developing the solution to that is happening now, and that is critical to making sure that the route is resilient. That is my No. 1 rail priority for the south-west, and I give an absolute guarantee to the House that, as long as I am Transport Secretary and beyond, my party is committed to delivering a solution to prevent the real risk that those cliffs represent.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Thursday 19th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We welcome open-access applications. They have made a real difference to many towns and cities around the country. It is clear that open access should happen where there is capacity for it to take place, so that it fills in gaps and puts in competition. The Office of Rail and Road is very careful in judging when it can permit open access and when it cannot. It looks very carefully at every proposal, and we welcome them.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil) about the potential late tasking of lifeboats, will the Minister meet me, parliamentary colleagues and the coastguard to ensure that the launch protocols the coastguard uses are not adding undue delay in the tasking of lifeboats in emergencies?

Monarch Airlines

Debate between Lord Grayling and Luke Pollard

Monday 9th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Having spent five years working for the Association of British Travel Agents and lobbying for greater holiday protection, may I extend my thanks to the people working hard for that and ask the Secretary of State to extend it to travel agents and tour operators? What hit does he expect the Air Travel Trust fund to take as a result of Monarch’s collapse, and can he give an assurance that the ATOL protection contribution will not go up, which would mean holidaymakers having to pay more in future?

[Chris Grayling]

We will not know exactly how much until we have gone through the numbers in detail with the administrator. We do know that only a relatively small proportion of Monarch customers were ATOL protected, because the nature of the business was mostly flight-only. I will happily inform the House once we have gone through all the details, which will take a bit of time, but it will not be a substantial proportion of the total, because of the small proportion of customers who are covered.