Confidence in the Secretary of State for Transport

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way once or twice during my speech, but as you said, Madam Deputy Speaker, we need to make progress so that people get a chance to contribute. I am going to make some progress before I give way.

As I previously told the House, over the past weeks, passengers on parts of the GTR and Northern franchises have faced totally unsatisfactory levels of service, and I apologise to passengers that have experienced and are experiencing disruption. Since the timetable has been introduced, my Department and the industry have been working round the clock to restore the reliability of the service across the network. Hour by hour, my officials are in contact with GTR, Northern and Network Rail to work to improve the service to passengers.

As I told the House, I have commissioned an independent inquiry. This will be led by the independent rail regulator, Stephen Glaister, to examine why we are in this situation and to avoid it ever happening again. I have met the owners of the franchises and demanded that they improve their operational response, including, in the case of GTR, increasing its managerial capacity. Clearly, nobody wants us to be in the position we find ourselves in today, but let me be absolutely clear: everyone in my Department is as focused as we possibly can be on improving reliability for passengers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

Absolutely; I agree with my right hon. Friend. This is something that we will have to look at very seriously indeed. There are many lessons to learn from all this, but most immediately, we need to get services back into place for passengers. I have been watching the issues at Eynsford and Shoreham in his constituency. It feels as though they are getting a better service than they were but there is still some way to go, and we need to make sure that that is covered.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Caroline Lucas]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I will take two more interventions, and then I will make progress to the end of my remarks so that I do not take up too much speaking time.

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. He will remember that we met on 4 June, when I relayed some of the real issues that my constituents in Oldham and Saddleworth were facing. He said that we should be seeing improvements to the emergency timetable. I said that I would hold him to it, and he also said that he would look at contingency arrangements if there were not improvements. I went back to Greenfield station last Friday and spoke to constituents who use those trains. They said that they had seen only marginal differences, so will the Secretary of State now commit to bringing these franchises—Northern and TransPennine Express—in-house, and will he ensure that there is compensation for TPE passengers as well?

[Chris Grayling]

I will talk about compensation in a moment. I have been watching the performance carefully, and there have been some signs of stabilisation, as I say, but there is still a long way to go. [Interruption.] As I just set out, we have seen some stabilisation. I have been looking at the services day by day, and there is still a way to go, but the decline we saw after the timetable change has at least been arrested, and as the hon. Lady herself admits, there have been some improvements, although not nearly enough. I accept that, and I will take away her comments and look carefully at her line again, but there has been at least a stabilisation.

Rail Timetabling

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Monday 4th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My understanding is that there is a need to align train crew rosters with the new timetable. That will take another 48 hours, but I am assured by Northern that the new timetable introduced this week should, as the week goes by, restore stability to that network. That is certainly—absolutely 100%—my expectation. It is essential for the hon. Lady’s constituents and that has to be delivered.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

The whole point about the new timetable—it has clearly not worked and it must work—is actually to deliver a more reliable service through reshaping timetables in a way that means there is less congestion and more services can be run for passengers. This has clearly not worked at all. This timetable was put in place for the best possible reasons and it has so far delivered the worst possible outcomes. That must change.

[Debbie Abrahams]

I first contacted the Transport Secretary back in November to raise concerns about the proposed timetable and, unfortunately, he completely ignored my concerns. Today’s interim timetable has brought even more havoc to my constituents who use Greenfield station, with five—up to now—trains being cancelled. What immediate action is he going to take to resolve some of the issues not just about timetabling, but about capacity? Will he ensure that, this time, passengers are involved?

[Chris Grayling]

Of course, the reality is that the most important thing, as I have set out, is that Northern Rail needs to deliver this week, as it has promised, a more stable timetable and something that people can rely on. Step by step, it then needs to put back in place the additional services that were supposed to deliver better options for the hon. Lady’s constituents and others. That clearly has not happened and I deeply regret that. It is unconscionable, and infuriating to all of us in government, that the things that were supposed to deliver a better outcome for everyone have not done so. We will not be anything other than relentless in pushing the rail industry to ensure that those benefits are delivered. They should be there now. They are not. It is worse than it should be. That has to change and it has to change quickly.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Thursday 19th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Obviously, I am well aware of the challenge we face with rail in the south-west. We had the difficult experience a couple of years ago of the line being washed away and having an extended period when it was closed. I know that the Department for Transport takes this enormously seriously, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work he is doing to make sure it is kept firmly on the desks of Ministers. I remind him that after this morning’s statement there will be an opportunity for him to raise the issue in the debate on transport, and I advise him to do just that.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Last Thursday, after Parliament had been prorogued, the Government published the peer review reports on the deaths of 49 social security claimants who had died between 2012 and 2014—this was after Ministers had denied that they had any records on people whose deaths had been linked to the social security system. Given the gravity of this matter and given that this is the second time data have been released on the deaths of social security claimants while Parliament has been in recess, when will the Leader of the House arrange for a statement to this House on what action has been taken to address the recommendations in these reports?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Lady will have the opportunity to raise this issue next Thursday, when there will be a debate on work and welfare matters in this House. I am sure she will take the opportunity to do that.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Thursday 14th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I think I see the emergence of an all-party black pudding group.

Particularly at this time of the year, with all the rain we have had, potholes are an issue for constituencies across the country, so my hon. Friend makes an important point. I am sure Members with an excess of potholes in their constituencies will take note of his comments and offer guidance to constituents affected, but of course we hope they will be repaired as quickly as possible.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

At the last general election, the Conservative party promised to protect social security for disabled people, and, in addition to the cuts proposed in the Welfare Reform and Work Bill, just before Christmas—just two years after they introduced it—the Government announced a consultation on the personal independence payment process that will, in effect, reduce disabled people’s eligibility. Will they explain why they have reneged on their promise, and when may we have a debate in Government time on this important issue?

[Chris Grayling]

The whole point about the PIP system was that its predecessor, the disability living allowance, was not being used for the purposes intended. DLA and PIP were designed to provide extra financial resource for people with disabilities, to help them cover the extra costs incurred in their daily lives, but DLA had become a sickness benefit and was being used by people who self-referred and had temporary illnesses rather than disabilities. The system was designed to pay benefits to people who needed them for their disabilities, not to those who did not have genuine disabilities but had health problems. That is what the new system was designed to achieve, and it is perfectly reasonable to review it two years in, to make sure it is delivering that objective.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Thursday 4th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The House has debated this matter extensively and will continue to do so, and I encourage my hon. Friends to continue raising the matter. My hon. Friend’s comments will have been heard by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. The new Secretary of State is a long-standing and experienced Member who does not take prisoners, as the BBC knows—and I have no doubt that BT will have the same experience.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) has just mentioned, the Secretary of State for Health announced in Liverpool this morning that the 18-week target for elective operations will be scrapped. Does the Leader of the House recognise that this shows absolute contempt for this House and our democracy? Did he know about the announcement, and what will he do to ensure the accountability of the Executive to the country’s elected representatives and, in turn, the people?

[Chris Grayling]

It is important to put on the record that the Secretary of State has made no announcement today. The news story that has emerged has come from the senior official at NHS England who has responsibility for the area under discussion. While it is the responsibility of Ministers to make statements to the House about decisions they personally take, where the NHS has been put under the operational control of the experts best placed to run it, as is the case now and has been argued for over many years, it is not always for Ministers to announce the decisions they take.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

7. What his strategy is for supporting victims of crime.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

The Government are committed to putting victims and witnesses first in the criminal justice system and to ensuring that they have high quality, effective and timely support to help them cope and, as far as possible, recover from the effects of crime. We published our document on commitments to victims in September 2014 and introduced a package of reforms that will provide even more support to victims, including establishing a new nationwide victims’ information service, strengthening the protection of vulnerable victims and witnesses at court, increasing transparency and accountability so that agencies are held to account for the services that they provide, and planning a victims law, setting out entitlements for victims in primary legislation. It is also worth saying that, under this Government, funding for services to support victims of crime has more than doubled to some £92 million in the coming financial year.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Murdered police officer Nicola Hughes was one of my constituents. Her father, Bryn, has worked relentlessly to campaign and raise funding for victims of crime, especially children, to help those who have lost a family member to violent crime and to keep Nicola’s memory alive. Bryn’s own experience of the criminal justice system was not a good one. Will the Secretary of State confirm that he will be supporting the proposals for a victims law in Labour’s victims taskforce report, which will transform the experience of victims and witnesses in the criminal justice system?

[Chris Grayling]

Let me first pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s constituent. We were all horrified and shocked by the terrible events that led to his loss. I extend my condolences, my gratitude to him, and indeed my gratitude to all the families of murder victims who have turned a terrible experience into positive work to help support the victims of crime, and to try to prevent these terrible events happening in future. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. It is clearly not our intention to allow the Labour party an opportunity to introduce a victims law, but it will be the intention of a Conservative Government to do just that and to continue the work we have been doing in this Parliament to extend the support provided to victims.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The scale of what happened in my hon. Friend’s constituency is shocking and the local police, local authority, and police and crime commissioner must learn the lessons to ensure that such a thing cannot happen again. If powers need to be taken at national level to help in that battle, the Government will certainly consider how we can contribute.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Two women a week die at the hands of their partner or ex-partner. Let me press the Minister on his earlier remarks. Is it acceptable that 40% of domestic violence victims cannot get access to legal aid?

Criminal Justice and Courts Bill

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Monday 1st December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am afraid that that is simply not right. Very many judicial reviews are not about whether we have broken a law passed by this place—of course, we must be challenged if that happens—but are based on a much looser interpretation of what should or should not happen. They are based not on statute, but on, for example, why we have run a consultation for six rather than nine weeks, given that the previous one was for nine weeks. The truth is that such arguments are brought to the courts by people who seek to delay the impact of decisions. I must say that if Labour Members find themselves taking difficult decisions in government after the election, they will discover that a judicial review’s ability to delay key decisions is against the interests of this country, and they will wish that they had supported rather than opposed us.

As hon. Members will see from the amendment paper, we will ask the House of Lords to reconsider its opposition on most of the measures. We listened very carefully to the concerns expressed on clause 67. We disagree with the Lords amendments, which undermine the clauses agreed by this House. Each amendment would take the heart out of the reforms by undermining any duty to give effect to the key requirements. However, we have listened very carefully to the concerns expressed on clause 67, and we have moved by proposing an alternative model.

If this House approves the amendments in lieu, clause 67 will continue to give the courts significant leeway in making cost orders. It will be for the court to consider whether any of the four conditions have been met. It will preserve the court’s role in deciding whether costs were caused by the intervener and incurred by the party reasonably. Where the court is of the view that exceptional circumstances would make the award of costs under the clause inappropriate, it need not make an award.

That is a crucial point on all of this. There are still provisions that give the judiciary the freedom, in exceptional circumstances, to say, “This is a particularly distinctive case, and we need to pursue an approach that is different from the norm.” We have left in provisions for such exceptional circumstances, but on clause 67 we have taken on board some of the concerns expressed. The amendments in lieu are not about preventing legitimate intervention in support of a case brought on behalf of a disadvantaged individual, but are about preventing a powerful group from using someone with no money as a human shield for a case in which the group intervenes behind that individual, with the public picking up the cost regardless of whether the case is won or lost. That should not happen.

We believe that the amendments in lieu strike a sensible balance. They meet the concerns expressed by hon. Members from different parts of the House in a way that will reassure both them and those in the other place that our intention is to tackle the challenge of such human shields, not to remove altogether the ability to intervene in cases where there is a legitimate reason for doing so.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that he is therefore re-establishing judicial discretion?

[Chris Grayling]

As I just said, we have never taken away judicial discretion. We have left in place the clause on exceptional circumstances. Almost every week, this House passes measures that set tramlines for the courts to operate within. We set maximum sentences, but if the maximum sentence for a crime is five years, we do not say that judges should give a five-year sentence; we give them the flexibility to decide what is the right length of time below that.

We are taking a similar approach with these proposals. We are saying to judges, “Look, you’ve got some flexibility, but there are parameters that we need you to operate within.” To my mind, that brings common sense back to the system of judicial review and deals with the frustrations with a system that can be abused. It does not create a situation in which legitimate judicial reviews cannot be brought.

Surely my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox) would admit that an organisation should not be able to bring a case to court free of financial risk because it is shadowing behind somebody who has no means and therefore cannot have costs awarded against them; that an organisation should not be able to set up a shell company to bring a judicial review without any information being available to the court about who is behind the shell company; and that an organisation should not be able to delay a difficult spending decision by arguing to a court that the whole process should start all over again because of a minor technicality. Those things happen on a regular basis and they must change.

These reforms are essential in restoring common sense to judicial review. I hope that the House will back the motions to disagree and the amendments in lieu.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will read that very carefully; it is a helpful contribution to how we address the literacy problem. I pay tribute to all the volunteers in the toe by toe programme, and to all the prisoners who can read and devote time to helping those who cannot. It is a path to the enhanced privileges available under our new regime. It is important that we take advantage of all the resources available to us to try to tackle the problem of a lack of literacy in our prisons.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

4. What steps he plans to take to enforce the code of practice for victims of crime.

Transforming Legal Aid

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Thursday 5th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Of course, cases such as the one raised regarding an inquest are covered separately. If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I am happy to give hon. Members responses to specific detailed questions, but I am not going to try in this Chamber to apply the new rules to individual cases. I do not think that would be the right thing to do.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The comment the Minister made about access to criminal legal aid for prisoners was inappropriate for somebody holding his office. Will the seriousness of a case or its merits be taken into account when people who have not been resident for 12 months are trying to access legal aid?

[Chris Grayling]

What we have done is set aside a certain number of areas of special case eligibility. The point about prisoners may be a point of difference between the hon. Lady and me, but we have a prison complaints system and a prison ombudsman, and I do not believe we should also provide public funding for people to go to court because they want to be transferred to a different prison. I think that the overwhelming majority of the public would be with me, rather than with her, on that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) should not keep prating noisily from a sedentary position. When he was practising at the Bar, he would not have behaved like that in the courts. Due decorum should be observed by the hon. Gentleman.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

This Government’s handling of the proposed changes to legal aid has been absolutely shambolic. Not only are they proposing to restrict access to legal aid—a right that goes back to Magna Carta—but their proposal will actually cost more. When will the Minister get a grip?

[Chris Grayling]

Sometimes, Mr Speaker, you have to pinch yourself when you hear Labour Members. It is true that we are going to limit access to legal aid to people who have a net disposable income of more than £3,000 a month after tax, national insurance, mortgage payments, food, council tax, and child care. My view is that if people have that much disposable income, they can make a contribution. Labour is only a party for the rich these days.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I am very grateful, Mr Speaker. I was going to ask the Secretary of State about legal aid. A vulnerable constituent of mine was charged on four separate occasions, and her solicitor, whom she appointed, was able to support her throughout. That ability is under threat from the legal aid proposals. Why is the Secretary of State proposing restrictions on access to legal aid for the vulnerable and those who cannot afford to pay?

[Chris Grayling]

I am not proposing that access to legal aid for the vulnerable be removed. Every person brought before a court or into a police station, and every person charged with an offence, will have access to legal aid for a defence unless they have sufficient means to pay for it themselves.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

10. What the Government’s policy is on membership of the European convention on human rights.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

As a coalition Government, we remain committed to the European convention on human rights, and we are also closely involved in the process to reform the Strasbourg Court. Individual political parties will choose what approach to take at the next general election.

[Debbie Abrahams]

The Home Secretary wants to leave the European convention on human rights; the Justice Secretary has said that he is not too sure, but he wants to abolish the Human Rights Act. Apart from being another omnishambles, does that reflect their lack of commitment to human rights, the fact that they want to leave the European Union, or both?

[Chris Grayling]

What I think is far more shameful is the complete resistance by the Labour party to any measures designed to stop a situation in which terrorist suspects with a clear goal of doing damage to the citizens of this country can use human rights law to try to defend their right to stay in this country.