Voting Age (Comprehensive Reduction) Bill [HL]

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Friday 25th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Hornsey (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, for bringing us to the point of a Second Reading of this admirably focused Private Member’s Bill. I do not want to rehearse the various anomalies regarding the age at which it is possible to marry and to join the Armed Forces, et cetera, as these have been covered. Examples of countries with a voting age of 16 were given in a very good speech by my noble friend Lady Coussins.

I shall focus on maturity and political understanding. A number of noble Lords have mentioned the lowering of the voting age from 21 to 18. In 1969, Lord Somers, speaking to his proposed amendment to the Representation of the People Bill and arguing against this move, made the following interesting comments. He said:

“Mental maturity can come only from experience. Recently we have seen some of the efforts of those who are 18 and over at the London School of Economics. I wonder how many of your Lordships would feel that they would be suitable electors for the Government of our country. I certainly do not. I do not think that they are more mature mentally. They are far more ready to voice their opinions; they are far more ready to question the wisdom of those who are older and wiser than they are. But that does not mean that they are more mature”.—[Official Report, 6/2/69; col. 214.]

Those are very telling remarks, which underpin a lot of people’s opposition to giving 16 year-olds the vote. As a number of noble Lords have suggested, maturity does not necessarily come with age and can diminish as we get older. It is unhelpful to generalise on the basis of age in this context.

For those noble Lords who have not seen it, perhaps I may recommend viewing an interview on YouTube with a 12 year-old Egyptian boy, Ali Ahmed. To date, it has had more than 3 million viewers. A reporter asked him to explain why he was participating in a demonstration last October. He stuns the reporter by referring to his opposition to a “fascist theocracy”. When asked by the interviewer to define this term because she did not know what it meant, he gives a critical analysis of the Muslim Brotherhood, the party at that time in power. He does not mince his words. He said that he was there to, “protest the confiscation of the constitution by one single party”. When asked about the progress the country has made, he asks right back, “Do you mean politically or socially?”. After a critique of the lack of equality for women, Ali Ahmed states that he has read the country’s draft constitution on the internet and declares that, “what is built on falsehood is false itself”. When asked how he knows all this, his reply is telling and simple. He says, “I listen to people a lot and I use my own brain. Plus I read newspapers, watch tv and search in the internet”.

Even if noble Lords have not seen that impressive interview, or watched a 14 year-old Kenyan, Richard Turere, explain on a TED talk how he developed a device that uses solar power to prevent lions from attacking his community, or missed 16 year-old Jack Andraka responding to a family death by inventing a cheap, effective test for pancreatic cancer, they surely will be familiar with the hugely impressive 16 year-old Malala Yousafzai, a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize and a heroine and role model for young people everywhere.

Of course, I am not trying to argue that these young people are the norm for their age. However, what they, and many more, have in common is the good sense not to think that because they are young, they have nothing to say about their world, the way it works and, importantly, how to improve it. Unsurprisingly, the internet is an important factor. Without it, awareness of their skills, knowledge and activism would have taken much longer to penetrate our consciousness and the capacity to spread the word on their achievements would be so much less. But, importantly, for many of them it is a learning tool.

As we all know, trawling the internet does not necessarily give the surfer wisdom. Often the opposite is true but newspapers and other older media do not always confer wisdom or knowledge on the reader or viewer either. However, the internet and social media offer the opportunity and the potential to gain an in-depth knowledge of the world around us across national and cultural borders that was unimaginable 20 years ago. Instead of putting down our young people for being glued to screens in what we might see as unproductive, harmful ways, we could harness the power of social media to encourage them to engage with the democratic process and to transform it, for it surely is in need of change.

Like many other noble Lords have said today, my experience of visits to schools is that most young people will profess to be ignorant of and uninterested in politics. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, said, we need to challenge that view rather than throw our hands in the air and claim that all is lost. I have found that they are not interested in party politics, which again echoes what other noble Lords have said, and the stale, rehashed speeches and positions that are constantly presented to them. If you get the right subject and teach it well, help them to learn about it in a way that enables them to see the relevance, and to develop their confidence, they will get involved, even if initially it is about very local or even personal issues. That is not a problem either. I do not see that level of activity as a problem at all.

As my noble friend Lady Coussins has said, many 16 year-olds are familiar with our political structures through citizenship studies, participation in mock elections at school, schools councils, the UK Youth Parliament and so on. There are more than 1.5 million 16 and 17 year-olds in the UK, many of whom feel very strongly about the issues that directly affect them, as well as educational opportunities, and poverty here and overseas. We often refer to young people as being disfranchised and alienated. In terms of driving the agenda for enhancing their lives, they are. But are we seriously suggesting that they should not have a say in shaping their, and our, world? Many would say that they do not want to have the vote and would agree that they should not be allowed to do so. But we are not suggesting that they should be compelled to vote, or at least some of us are not; simply that they are enabled to. Enabling entails enhancing their education in civic responsibility and improving their understanding of how power works through political processes and mechanisms.

The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, was emphatic about this issue during the Question for Short Debate we had earlier this year. He made what I think is an interesting point:

“Every school with a sixth form and every further education and sixth-form college should have a polling station, and young people should be registered to vote there—instead of there being the perversity that some schools are actually closed on polling day so that the adults can vote undisturbed”.—[Official Report, 27/2/13; col. GC181.

I heartily agree with that. Young people should be involved in a meaningful way in the political process as early as possible in order to create a basis for greater political engagement in later life. Though it should not be regarded as a universal panacea for our political culture and the state that it is in, votes at 16 could be just the impetus we need to reinvigorate that political culture. Once we have left education, few of us, young or old, are likely to be exposed to a discussion as to why it is so important to vote, and those leaving school at 16 may have to wait six or eight years before they can cast their vote. When the voting age was lowered to 18, to my frustration I had to wait for several years until I could exercise that right.

The lament of Lord Somers in that earlier quotation from Hansard is a familiar one and is often at the heart of arguments about the voting age. Yes, young people will challenge our habits, thinking and actions, as well as our judgment of what is right for the country and what is wrong. That is their job and I hope that, through agreeing to progress this Bill, we will let them get on with it.

English Premier League Football

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to contribute to this debate and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Bates, on initiating it and opening it in such an eloquent manner. I declare an interest. I am an Arsenal season-ticket holder and a lifetime member of the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust, and I am therefore a Gooner. I will do my best from now on to avoid references to my team and my favourite football metaphors.

As we reach the moment when transfer deals are won and lost, while the new season is rapidly approaching and the sad lack of achievement by our national squads is all too recent, it is a good time to reflect on the achievements of the English Premier League. There is no doubting the scale of the economic impact, which has already been mentioned by several noble Lords. Scanning through the Premier League submissions to the House of Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee, and Deloitte’s review, we learn that some of the vast amounts of money that have been earned have been reinvested in stadium facilities, playing squads and training standards in wider communities and grass-roots football. It is not only the football business that benefits from the Premier League’s financial achievements. Clubs have a significant impact on employment, GDP, national and local economies, and industries such as broadcasting, marketing, travel, tourism and hospitality, and on taxation revenues, as has been mentioned.

With the projected 25% increase in income from broadcasting, it is calculated that the revenue of Premier League clubs could hit £3 billion. We are looking at an institution in rude financial health, in spite of financial downturn, recession and austerity, whereas in the Spanish and Italian leagues the economic climate has dampened revenues. In fact, though the German Bundesliga is the most profitable league in Europe, the Premier League has the highest revenue of any league in European football. This is testament to its negotiating power, which is in turn due to its popularity and global drawing power.

While revenues continue to grow, the profitability of some individual clubs gives rise to concern and points to wider issues of financial sustainability, responsible ownership and accountability to supporters. Some clubs live beyond their means. The 2011 CentreForum report, Football and the Big Society, drew attention to the fact that several clubs were operating at a loss. Two significant issues were the financial solvency of some of the benefactors keeping clubs going, and these benefactors’ general suitability. Portsmouth FC has been mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Addington. It ended up in administration with unpaid debts of £108.6 million, including £17 million owed to HMRC.

Beyond the Premier League in wider football issues, the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee has raised serious concerns about the overall governance of the sport, especially in the context of increasing commercialisation, a lack of adequate financial regulation and significant financial risk-taking. In its Football Governance Follow-Up report published earlier this year, the committee states:

“We see little evidence that clubs will spend significant amounts of the funding available from the latest broadcasting rights settlement on increasing their sustainability rather than on players’ salaries and transfers”.

The committee also questioned how the new regulations on financial fair play would be enforced. Commenting on football authorities’ responses to proposals for reform, John Whittingdale, chair of the committee, said:

“While some progress has been achieved, much greater reform in football is needed to make the game inclusive, sustainable and driven from the grass roots, where it should be … the financial risk-taking by clubs is a threat to the sustainability of football as a family and community-orientated game, which it should be”.

That last point is important because it goes to the heart of what support and allegiance to a football club is all about: the links and relationship to a club’s fan base and the club’s place in, and contribution to, the local community.

Of course, many football clubs have long-standing community engagement programmes and activities that are broad and inventive. For example, football is used to encourage participation in physical exercise, to contribute to a healthy living agenda, to promote community cohesion through initiatives that bring people together, and for tapping into interest in football to encourage young people to take up modern languages and so on. But, arguably, community engagement goes beyond developing and implementing specific projects. It is an ethos—an embedded practice that should inform the way in which a club relates to its supporters and local communities throughout its business. In Football, Ownership and Social Value, Supporters Direct stated that increased “ticket and kit prices”, along with a,

“sense of being ‘fleeced’ at every opportunity … have priced many out of the ‘people’s game’”.

The impersonal relationship, the cost of supporting a super-club and the influence of TV contracts on the timing of matches have put off many, especially families, from following FA Premier League teams.

Football has done much to tackle racism on the pitch and on the terraces, and homophobia, but still there is a huge amount to do. I hope that my noble friend Lord Ouseley will speak later on how progress is being made on tackling racism and other forms of discrimination. It is noticeable that although the women’s game is growing in popularity—in spite of a recent, temporary setback—and British-born players of African and African-Caribbean descent are gracing pitches throughout the country, when we look at managers and coaches and scan the faces in boardrooms throughout the game we do not see any of this diversity reflected. That problem needs urgent attention.

When we shell out for our tickets, we do not do so because we want to buy into a business plan or profit margins. Anyone who knows the joy and pain of supporting a football team knows that we support it because of the close relationship between the club’s history and heritage, in its values and ethos, and those of our own as fans.

Elections: Voting Age

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

My Lords, I, too, am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has given us the opportunity to discuss the lowering of the voting age to 16. One of the main benefits of such a discussion is having the opportunity to think about how our attitudes to young people have changed and developed over the years here in the UK.

Encouraging young people to become actively involved in local community politics through exercising a right to vote could help reinvigorate local government, as well as contribute to boosting the number of people who vote in police and crime commissioner elections, and so on. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Norton, that giving younger people the right to vote should not be seen as a universal panacea for increasing engagement with parliamentary and local government democracy, but there seems to be little evidence to suggest that lowering the voting age will be detrimental to voter turnout. In Austria, Nicaragua, Guernsey and the Isle of Man—where 16 year-olds are allowed to vote—there are consistently higher levels of voter turnout than we currently have here, and we need to understand why.

I have heard some extraordinary comments about 16 year-olds and their apparent lack of sense, political naivety, lack of intellectual capacity, inability to tell when they are being taken for a ride, attachment to superficiality and celebrity, et cetera. I only wish I could say that none of those observations applies to people of my own and other age groups. In my experience of visiting schools and speaking with groups visiting Parliament, young people know and feel very strongly about key global issues relating to the environment and poverty, through connections with schools overseas, the internet, and so on. As the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has said, this information was simply not available when many of us were younger.

Back in 2006, in response to a recommendation by the Power report, one MP argued against the lowering of the voting age to 16, saying:

“Clearly, a line must be drawn to indicate when a young person becomes an adult, and the present age of 18 is widely accepted across society as signifying a major turning point in the personal development and maturity of individuals”.

Of course, that is not actually true because there is so little consistency about when we deem a young person to be an adult. In any case, those kinds of distinctions are very much socially constructed and change over the years. When I was a teenager, the line was drawn at 21, and I am sure that at that time it seemed equally obvious that that was the magical age at which maturity suddenly dawned. But I would argue that even in the seven years since the inquiry headed by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, reported its findings on participation, we have seen sufficient changes in society to warrant a fresh look at this issue.

There is a general recognition, I think, that many of our children and young people mature physically and psychologically earlier than previous generations. Some even have the responsibilities associated with older people, such as acting as carers for family members. Since the 1980s, more and more young people have expected to go on to further and higher education and as a consequence have had to develop skills of intellectual analysis, which again were not necessarily available to some of us when we were younger. A-levels are offered across the country in government, politics and public administration, and there are courses on citizenship, rights and responsibilities, mock elections, and so on.

As has already been mentioned, the so-called new media such as Twitter, YouTube, the internet and apps offer opportunities to learn about the world in a much wider way than ever before. Young people born into the digital age are most adept at exploiting these resources.

Anyone who doubts that 16 and 17 year-olds are capable of unpicking and analysing political discourse should go to some of the schools that colleagues and I have visited as part of the Peers in Schools programme. When I went to Haringey Sixth Form Centre in Tottenham, when we were in deadlock here debating the reform of the House of Lords, I was well grilled by a group of 16 and 17 year-olds on every aspect of the Bill in a very knowledgeable way and in great detail. They were far more knowledgeable than some of my friends outside the House.

Then there is the Youth Parliament, formed in 1998. Members are aged between 11 and 18 and more than 500,000 young people vote in the elections each year. I will give the last word to somebody who was a representative in the Youth Parliament and who now interns for me, Adam Jogee. About six years ago, when he was 16, he wrote the following:

“As an elected representative of the young people of Haringey, I have first hand experience of their passion, energy and commitment: the energy they use to serve our community, the passion with which they view the world and its future and the commitment which they use to contribute to our society. If we look back over the decades, there are countless cases and examples of people rising up and fighting for their basic human right—the right to vote!”.

European Union Committee Report

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

My Lords, I will focus on the work of the sub-committee formerly known as G on social policies and consumer protection, which I chaired before it was wound up. I take the opportunity to thank the sub-committee’s clerk, admin assistant and analyst, and all the sub-committee members, for their contributions to the work outlined in the report. Many noble Lords this afternoon acknowledged the effectiveness of the noble Lords, Lord Roper and Lord Boswell, as chairmen of the EU Select Committee, and I, too, express my admiration for their hard work.

During the 2010-12 Session, EU Sub-Committee G undertook the varied work that is set out in the report. As many noble Lords will be aware, EU legislation and issues are such that they invariably take several years to sort out. In the 2009-10 Session, we undertook an inquiry into the European Social Fund, identifying the types of changes that might be helpful for the period, both in the short term and in the longer term for the 2013-20 period. The proposal for the new European Social Fund, published in October 2011, was an important item of scrutiny for the sub-committee. We decided to reconvene some of the witnesses to our original inquiry, along with other stakeholders, the Government, the European Commission and the devolved Administrations, at a public seminar in December 2011 to share views on the new European Social Fund. In addition to committee members and staff, around 50 stakeholders attended. Feedback on this seminar was very positive and it gave us helpful input into our scrutiny of the European Social Fund proposals. Notable issues we pursued were simplification, local flexibility and strategic alignment with other structural funds. The latter point is one that Sub-Committee A is still following in its continued scrutiny of the structural funds proposals.

It was most encouraging to see so many stakeholders coming together and debating key issues at the invitation of the EU committee and on the basis of an EU committee report. Building on this work, we organised a more general stakeholder engagement seminar, which has already been mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Roper. That was some months later. In fact, this was originally his brainchild. It was correctly identified that a great many stakeholders from across the range of subjects with which Sub-Committee G dealt simply do not understand the work of the EU Committee and its sub-committees. This is something that a number of noble Lords have raised this afternoon. How can they engage with what we do if they do not understand what we do? Why should they engage? What is it that we do that is important to them? Calling it a stakeholder engagement seminar makes it sound a bit more formal than it actually was. It was a very informal event. Part of its value was simply mingling with colleagues from across the range of subjects which we dealt with. We also had a very good discussion and some of those groups certainly have had more of a dialogue with the committee since then. It has also led to work improving the website to ensure that it is more accessible to those wanting to find out more about our work, although I appreciate that there is an awful lot more work to be done on that score.

During the 2010-12 Session, Sub-Committee G undertook three substantial inquiries. The first was a subject which at first glance does not sound like the kind of thing that we would be discussing in an EU committee. This was grass-roots sport and there were members of the sub-committee and elsewhere who took the view, at least initially, that it was not a suitable subject for us to look into. However, the Lisbon treaty had introduced sport as a policy area in which the European Commission could encourage member states to work more closely and we wanted to find out what this would mean for grass-roots sport in this country. This was pre-Olympics and before all of that euphoria. Above all we heard that grass-roots sport should be mainstreamed into other policy areas, such as health, education and social inclusion. We met with some previously excluded individuals who had developed core social and leadership skills through sport. One of our specific recommendations was that there should be a distinct budget to support grass-roots sport-related actions. We were therefore pleased to see the inclusion of such a budget within the new Erasmus for All programme. The budget will support actions which include exploitation of the potential of sport to foster social inclusion. An interesting benefit of pursuing this issue was that we were able to communicate with a wider range of individuals and organisations, both as witnesses and during visits, who would not normally consider themselves to have an interest in the work of the House of Lords in scrutinising EU issues.

Our second inquiry concerned the mobility of healthcare professionals in the context of the review of the professional qualifications directive published in October 2011. We considered that the current directive failed to command the confidence of patients and professionals, striking the wrong balance between encouraging mobility and ensuring patient safety, and therefore needed to be revised. We hoped that our recommended improvements to the directive would enhance rather than undermine free movement by rebuilding confidence among patients, employers and professionals.

The report was very well received among stakeholders, including the General Medical Council and the Nursing and Midwifery Council. The Government also credited it with influencing their response to the Commission’s Green Paper consultation on the revision of the directive. After the Commission’s proposal for a revised directive was published in December 2011, I met with senior representatives of all the UK professionals covered by it at the beginning of this year and their views helped to inform the sub-committee’s subsequent scrutiny of that proposal. I am glad that Sub-Committee F has continued to scrutinise this important matter, most recently in its oral evidence session with the Health Minister, the noble Earl, Lord Howe, on 21 November.

Sub-Committee G’s third and last inquiry was into the modernisation of higher education in Europe, which was published last March. We considered not only the EU’s role in this area but also the ongoing Bologna process, which has seen the creation of a European higher education area, including 47 European countries. We concluded that while the EU can continue to make a positive contribution to European higher education, it must nevertheless be pragmatic and concentrate only on the areas where it can add value. In addition, we considered that the Government should place higher education at the centre of their growth agenda, domestically and across Europe, by maximising the potential of both the EU and the Bologna process. The report also considered the Erasmus programme, which we considered to be an important activity in terms of increasing students’ employability. However, the UK’s participation has been historically low compared with other large member states, and we decided that making language learning compulsory in both primary and secondary school would be one way of increasing the UK’s participation, alongside taking steps to encourage a more diverse range of participants. In this vein, we also called on the Government to support the allocation of a greater proportion of the next multiannual financial framework budget to research, innovation and education.

The day after the report was published, I also participated in an LSE workshop, chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, and attended by a range of academics which discussed some of the same themes as our report. Like other noble Lords, I think that we could be much more effective in obtaining press and media coverage. The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, points to the need for a media strategy and I would concur with that. We should also embrace more fully the opportunities afforded by social media. Chairs of sub-committees have appeared on YouTube—to great acclaim, I understand—and written blogs. But there is more we could do with Twitter, for example, in spreading the word to a wider public about the work we do.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I know that it is very seldom that we intervene, but this is brilliant as I have just tweeted with regard to this Committee on the excellent contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Haskel. I am now about to tweet about the contribution of the noble Baroness, Lady Young.

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

I have to tell the noble Lord that I tweeted before him. We should embrace all social media and spread the word about the work we do to a wider public. I concur absolutely with the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, and the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, on engaging much more widely, whether we call it outreach, engagement, stakeholder engagement, or whatever. There are structures such as those named by the noble Lord—the Peers in Schools programme, Parliament Week and so on—which all represent opportunities for us to do so.

I now have the privilege of sitting on Sub-Committee C on External Affairs—a very different set of challenges to those posed by social policies and consumer protection. I am pleased to state that there, too, our chairman, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is also keen on new ways of communicating with different sets of stakeholders. As has already been said by the noble Lords, Lord Boswell and Lord Roper, we held a seminar last week, attended by a wide range of stakeholders with an interest in our current inquiry on the European External Action Service. I look forward to further discussions on this matter on how to make more progress in outreach, engagement, et cetera. I know that that is something that both the present chairman and the previous chairman hold close to their hearts.

Historical Manuscripts Commission

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Tuesday 29th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

My Lords, I am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, has brought the issue of our archival heritage to the House’s attention through this debate.

I first became involved in the archive world after being seconded from my lecturing job to assist Black Cultural Archives in developing its collection. During that time, I worked with colleagues in the Historical Manuscripts Commission and was struck by their helpfulness and generosity of spirit in contributing time and energy to that project and to others in which I was subsequently involved. To my surprise and delight, I had the honour of receiving an invitation from the chair—the highly esteemed Lord Bingham—to join the RCHM as a commissioner, which I accepted. That was the occasion on which the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, and I first became colleagues, albeit briefly. Perhaps uniquely, I recently also served as a non-executive director of the National Archives for several years.

The archives sector continues to undergo rapid change, cultural and technological. Shortly after I joined as a commissioner, the HMC, as we have heard, merged with the Public Record Office to form the National Archives. This decision was taken in order to enable the Historical Manuscripts Commission to keep up with the significant changes taking place in technology and issues affecting public and private archives, and to open up wider access both to researchers at all levels and to funding opportunities. This new body, the National Archives, was tasked with maintaining the quality of advice for the public sector and the owners of private archives, and to ensure that the work of the HMC continued. It also aims to offer the more efficient delivery of all services and better value for money, and to serve as the lead body to take forward government policy on archives.

Last year, the National Archives also took on the role of sole strategic leader of the archive sector, with the transfer of key archival responsibilities from the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council, a role that now encompasses the full range of the nation’s archival provision, public and private. I recall from our board meetings at TNA on several occasions having discussions to ensure that the Historical Manuscripts Commission functions remain a critical element of TNA’s work, enabling the integrated organisation to continue to support and advise archives outside the public sector and to have an impact across the whole archival spectrum.

Since 2003, the scope of the work has diversified further, taking in a wider variety of record-holding bodies, such as business, religious and charity archives. I very much welcome that expansion, as it allows the wonder of archives to be shared by more communities and fully supports and augments some of the work in which HMC is engaged. Like most other public bodies, TNA has had to continue its operation in the context of substantial cuts. Despite that, I am aware that it continues its work in the private archive sector. In the context of having to make savings of 25%, TNA continues to build on the solid foundation laid by HMC.

For example, the National Register of Archives is an invaluable tool that provides a unique map of the nation’s archival collection, and it was initiated by HMC. The register provides a central point of information about archives beyond the records held by the National Archives, which, as noble Lords will be aware, focuses on collecting government documents and information. The register records the location of more than 300,000 collections, with thousands more added annually. Alongside the NRA, there is the manorial documents register. That is constantly being reviewed and computerised, with half the counties so far completed. There are other initiatives to which I could point, such as the religious archives survey, which not only produced an important reference document but enabled archive staff at TNA to develop new relationships with a wide range of religious bodies connected to many faiths. There is also the business archives strategy, which was launched in Parliament and well attended by major business figures.

In conclusion, of course there is insufficient time to go into further detail and to respond to some of the comments already made by noble Lords. I am sure that the Minister will have gathered by now that I am a firm supporter of the entirety of TNA’s work and that I, and many others, recognise and support the work that HMC started, which is being continued. I hope that he can assure the House that TNA will be funded at a level that enables it to continue to build on the substantial heritage of the HMC.

Draft House of Lords Reform Bill

Baroness Young of Hornsey Excerpts

Tuesday 1st May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Hornsey]

My Lords, I rise to speak briefly in the gap and thank the House for allowing me the opportunity to do so. I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for trumping her as the last speaker from the Joint Committee.

Like others before me, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Richard, for his diligent and patient chairing and engagement with this most difficult of tasks. As a member of the committee, I learnt a lot about how both Houses work and welcomed the opportunity to work with Members from the other place as well as a cross-party group of Peers. In the main I supported the Government’s proposals for a number of reasons. However, I did so having changed from my original position. I had previously supported an appointed House along the lines of the original Steel Bill. However, given that Bill’s death by a thousand cuts, that was no longer a viable option and in any case I had some major misgivings.

After considering and analysing the statements made to the Joint Committee and hearing some of the arguments that I had previously made played back to me, spoken by other Members of your Lordships’ House, I could no longer subscribe to the notion that an all-appointed House was the right course for reform. I will not say that it was an easy decision to come to, partly because I anticipated that many of my noble friends on the Cross Benches would oppose an elected second Chamber, although I might have underestimated the vigour with which they would do so. But arguably even more importantly, I was wary of supporting the proposals in the White Paper and Bill that we have pored over for so long because the draft legislation contains a number of problems that need to be sorted fully before it is considered fit for purpose. Noble Lords have, of course, pointed out those flaws.

I wish to address three points in the short time allocated to me. I am addressing these because they are some of the issues on which I modified my views as scrutiny progressed. First, some noble Lords say that there is more party-political independence in your Lordships’ House than in the other place. As the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, and others have mentioned, on many occasions this House has successfully put forward amendments challenging government Bills. However, in the vast majority of cases—well over 90 per cent—noble Lords vote with their political party, even though they may sometimes feel like doing so while holding their noses.

Secondly, I have heard it said many times that there is more diversity in the Lords than in the other place. I have said it myself in the past but I decided to check the assumption. Diversity in this House across the category of age is particularly poor, with many more noble Lords over 80 than the two Members we have under 40, as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, pointed out. On gender, we do about as well as the other place. However, no rigorous research is available on disability, ethnicity and faith as we do not monitor these areas. Further, it must be clear to most noble Lords that we are drawn from a narrow stratum of society as regards social class and regional representation. In other words, we have no evidence to support the assertion that the Lords is more diverse as a result of being appointed. Incidentally, the issue of evidence is very important when considering what was put before the committee. Much, if not most, of what we heard and read was essentially opinion, albeit the opinion of experts, and should be examined in that light.

Thirdly, there is the question of whether the public think that Lords reform is a priority, especially in the current challenging times. If they do not, perhaps that is because they have lost faith in our political system and see it as being concerned with maintaining the interests of an entrenched privileged political elite—one that works to the advantage of all three major political parties. Perhaps the public are not prioritising constitutional change because they do not think that the institutions are willing or able to change that much in the end. The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has already referred to the fact that, when polled, the majority of the public regularly state a preference for Members to be elected in the House of Lords. They also want Members who are less in thrall to the party political machines. In any case, have we really reached a point where we have so little confidence in the Government and Parliament that we feel that they, or we, are unable to work through more than one major issue at a time? Historically, the work of Parliament has not ground to a halt in order to deal with one grave situation to the exclusion of all else.

In spite of the hostile reception given to the Bill in your Lordships’ House, I remain convinced of the principle of election, at least for the majority of the House. We continually assert that this House does an excellent job at revising and scrutinising, so let us hope that the Government will take on board the many considered and thought-through comments from the Joint Committee, noble Lords and the alternative report. Then, when the Bill comes to this House, no doubt we will perform this function with our customary rigour.