Tributes
Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Stoneham of Droxford
Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)
My Lords, as the Government Chief Whip read out the various statistics of how long we have sat—the number of days, Questions and Divisions—the House must have felt every one of them. It has been a very long stint indeed.
I take this opportunity before we all head off to Summer Recess to thank all those who work in the House administration for their efforts in enabling this place to function. The work done by staff in the catering departments, the Committee Office and the Library, and across the accommodation and facilities teams, is not recognised enough. I know that noble Lords across the House will join me in paying tribute to them and the work they do in supporting all noble Lords day in, day out, often through late nights.
It is important to remember that we work in a building that is at least 155 years old—some parts are older than others; the door is very new—and in offices which span Westminster. The teams that keep those buildings going, our offices clean and all the facilities that we use in working order are greatly appreciated by noble Lords across the House. The same can be said of the catering teams, who, we must not forget, stay up with us during late sittings, provide us with food and cheer throughout the day, and work hard to sustain us and our staff. I know that I speak on behalf of all noble Lords when I say that we appreciate them and their hard work and recognise the vital contribution they make to this place.
I thank staff in the Committee Office and the Library for all that they do to allow this House to perform its core functions: to hold the Government to account and to scrutinise the legislation they seek to pass. The Library and the work of committees is fundamental in allowing us to do that. It is with them that we can do this in an informed, accurate and effective way.
Last but not least, I extend my thanks to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, and, of course, the Government Chief Whip the Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms and his office for the work that they do in managing the business of the House. He knows that I respect him hugely and I am glad that the feeling is mutual. It has been a particularly busy period for us, and we have a lot to debate, scrutinise and discuss. I know that he has a tough task. I recognise the work that he and his office do on a daily basis. We do not agree on everything. Sometimes we violently disagree on certain things, but never in front of the children—for that, read the House. I appreciate the relationship we have built up since the election and beforehand, and look forward to working with him after the Recess to make sure that this House and all noble Lords have the opportunity to question what the Government are doing, how they are doing it and what they could do better. When I was Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms, I always provided the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, with vast quantities of biscuits and cake to keep him sweet. That has been deficient in his tenure, so I look forward to more biscuits and cakes—I know that he eats them all.
Fundamentally, this is why all Members of your Lordships’ House are here today. It is in this spirit that we will seek to engage with the noble Lord and the usual channels, as we have done so far. I wish all noble Lords and the staff of this House a very happy Recess.
Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)
My Lords, I begin by placing on record our thanks to the doorkeepers. Their consistent and reliable presence is a key part of the daily functions of this House. Their professionalism and courtesy ensure that our proceedings are conducted in an orderly and dignified manner.
I also wish to acknowledge the invaluable work of our colleagues in the Parliamentary Digital Service. Their technical expertise underpins much of our ability to operate effectively, particularly in meeting the changing demands of hybrid working. Their support has been dependable throughout the Session and is greatly appreciated by many Members and their staff, who often need their support on a daily basis.
Our thanks are likewise due to all the cleaning staff, whose work, though often undertaken outside the visible hours of this House, is no less vital. They are some of the unsung heroes of the Palace of Westminster. They play a crucial role in maintaining the cleanliness and safety of the Parliamentary Estate at all times and we are hugely grateful for all that they do.
I thank the Printed Paper Office. Its precise and dependable service is integral to the smooth conduct of business in this House and its commitment to accuracy and efficiency is greatly valued by all who rely on its work. Our thanks are due to it.
I would like to thank my colleagues in the usual channels and pay great tribute to the service given by our group leader Dick, my noble friend Lord Newby, who is standing down today after nine years of service. I welcome and congratulate our new leader Jeremy, my noble friend Lord Purvis.
Sometimes in recent weeks, as we have debated the Employment Rights Bill late into the night, long after the Commons has gone home, I have found somewhat ironic and questionable the conditions and hours we impose on ourselves and the staff. I hope we will look again at our working conditions and hours in the very near future.
Finally, as others have said, I wish all Members across the House, and all staff in all teams, a restful and restorative Summer Recess.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Stoneham of Droxford
Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)
My Lords, I will be brief, as I always expected people to be when we were in government, but I will just respond in kind to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy—now the Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms. I am sure he will do a fine job, as he will as Government Chief Whip. We followed each other through the DCLG and the Home Office and then as Chief Whips on our respective sides. I think the relationship has been built on trust and respect. I would describe it as a marriage of sorts: we row in private and keep it all fine in public. I thank him for his kind words and just reiterate that point: what we expected in government we will abide by in opposition.
Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)
My Lords, I join in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, on his appointment. I look forward to working with him on the Government Benches. I also pay tribute to the former Government Chief Whip, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams. Over the last couple of years, we have had a remarkably good relationship despite all the votes that we have had. I pay tribute to the way that she has conducted business through the usual channels. Obviously, we are continuing to work with the Cross Benches. Over the last few years, this has been an extremely good relationship, despite the record number of votes that we have had. I thank everybody who has been involved.
Passport (Fees) Regulations 2018
Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Stoneham of Droxford(7 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her explanation of these regulations and we are broadly supportive of the idea, in particular the move to online and the proposal for a price incentive to encourage people to apply in that way. I am sensitive to the concern about people who do not have online access, but I expect that the Government will take appropriate action to make sure that they are supported.
I wish to make three points. First, if this was the private sector, one would have peak and trough pricing. I should like to know what the peaks and troughs for passport applications are. In the summer there are always problems when people want to renew their passports, and presumably there is a lull in the winter when fewer people are travelling. One of the costs to the public sector, that of retaining peak staffing, could be assuaged if more people are encouraged to apply for their passports when the demand is lower. Have the Government considered that and are there great peaks in the workflow?
Secondly, while I understand that people must pay the cost of issuing a passport, what proportion of the costs of maintaining our borders and our consular activities overseas are we aiming to meet through passport renewal? We all know that there is a national interest in our borders and in having consular services overseas because they perform other functions besides looking after British passport holders, so obviously a key proportion of the costs of those services should come out of general taxation rather than simply being met by people who apply for passports. What proportion of the costs of these services will this measure contribute and what is the Government’s ultimate aim here?
Finally, one thing that Brexit will do is to increase the cost of our borders because it will require extra people to man them. Are those renewing their passports going to have to pay for the cost of Brexit or will it come out of general taxation? My view is that it is the Government who are creating this extra cost; they should therefore pay for it out of taxation. They should not be trying to put the extra costs of Brexit on to those who apply for passports. We should not forget that the economy benefits hugely from tourism so it is in our interest to improve the current border controls, which many people regard as slow and inefficient. What are the Government doing to make improvements in, for example, the flow of people through our border controls, which I am sure they have an interest in since they are now seeking an additional source of revenue to pay for them?
Baroness Williams of Trafford
I thank both noble Lords for their questions. I turn first to the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham. He asked about peak and trough pricing, but then suggested that the extra costs of maintaining the border should be met through general taxation. We have considerably improved the technology and intelligence around our border and we think that we will be able to meet any additional burdens created through Brexit. The fees application regulations before us are not about Brexit; they are about putting in train something that was decided in the Immigration Act 2016, and thus I think before Brexit was even a twinkle in the general public’s eye.
As to what proportion of money will go to the border, we expect that about 40% of the current full cost to the Home Office of UK passengers leaving and entering the UK will be funded by passport fees after these increases. We did consider peak and trough schemes, and looked at variable pricing, but the cost of that would outweigh the benefits.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
That was the analysis—the costs would outweigh the benefits of doing it.
The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about the £12.50 increase. That of course is for the paper application. The analysis shows that a premium service is more expensive, paper being not the cheapest way to deliver passports or indeed other items. That is reflected in that fee increase. As for full-cost recovery, the noble Lord and I have had many an exchange on such local government matters. He asked me to take it to MHCLG. I will, but I suspect the reason for not having full-cost recovery, as with all local government things, is so that things do not become overpriced. MHCLG always sets them under full-cost recovery, but I shall certainly take that back.
The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, also asked about digital inclusion, particularly for poorer people and people without access to libraries. The Government totally recognise this point. The digital strategy uses 3,000 libraries across England to provide a trusted network of accessible locations with trained staff and volunteers, free wi-fi, computers and other technology. In addition, people can use a friend’s or colleague’s computer to do this. Just because you have not got a computer in your home, that does not disfranchise you from applying online.
I reiterate my support for the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about being charged at cash machines. It is something that really irritates me. I accept that sometimes the only cash machine in a location is a paid-for one and that some of the fees really are quite outrageous. I think that is about it. Have I answered everything or does the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, want to come in?
Lord Stoneham of Droxford
Before the Minister sits down, can I go back to the two points I raised? I would like to see the peaks and troughs, and presumably monthly figures are available. I would be quite interested to see them. Secondly, I do not think that the Government should easily be able to get away with the assumption that there is no cost from Brexit when it comes to border controls. That is almost fantastical and I do not think anybody would believe it. It would be useful to know how many of the 130 million people going through our borders actually have EU passports as opposed to UK ones. We know the quantity of people who are doing that. I go back to my original question. If you assume that passport renewals will pay for 40% of the border costs and if the costs go up because of Brexit, does that mean we will have higher proportionate passport renewal costs over time in order to keep to that percentage?
Baroness Williams of Trafford
I cannot answer some of those questions but I know that HMPO will have done an analysis of the figures. I was trying to say, but I do not think I was doing it very articulately, that we have a variety of technological, intelligence and other methods of predicting people crossing the border and of looking for the needle in the haystack, which is the person who is crossing the border illegally or someone who might be on our watch list. Our technology and intelligence have improved significantly. We have e-gates and other methods such as heartbeat monitors at the border. I do not disagree with the noble Lord that volumes might go up, but we have better methods of predicting and detecting illegal crossings of the border. On the other point about numbers, I will write to the noble Lord.
Motion agreed.
Committee adjourned at 3.26 pm.