Housing: Manifesto Commitment

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Wednesday 26th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, the more that noble Lords row with each other, the less time there is to answer questions. I did say my noble friend Lord Naseby next, and then the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, is this not now a golden opportunity for the new Government to recognise the success of Milton Keynes as a new town/city, Northampton as a new town, and Welwyn Garden City? That concept can be modernised and is an opportunity —to pick up the point made by my noble friend—for social housing to be in the lead? Should not every one of the roofs in these new towns be appropriate for dealing with Covid, et cetera?

Investigatory Powers (Communications Data) (Relevant Public Authorities and Designated Senior Officers) Regulations 2020

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate and the noble Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, for his brief appearance. I could not keep up with the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, so I have missed some bits out. I hope to pick them up in the answers to other questions, but I will write to him if not.

I was very pleased to hear the opening remarks from the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett; I thought he would be supportive. He admitted to never having heard of the UK National Authority for Counter Eavesdropping. I join him in that: neither have I. It is the national authority for technical security and counter-eavesdropping. It helps the Government on technical espionage attacks by hostile state actors. Its capabilities and purpose are distinct and focus on countering close-access technical operations that could ultimately damage national security.

As he will know only too well, hostile state actors currently have the desire and the means to gain access to or otherwise compromise the integrity of highly classified communications systems and secure facilities. They are known to be able to carry out close-attack technical attacks, as demonstrated by the attack on the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in The Hague by the Russian intelligence services in 2018. In that case, the Dutch authorities were able to detect and apprehend the agents involved, along with a car full of equipment.

We assessed that Russia and other hostile state actors, particularly China, will continue to attempt to disrupt, attack and commit espionage in the UK. I do not think any noble Lords in the Committee would disagree with that. The Intelligence and Security Committee’s recent report into the interference by Russia in UK democracy demonstrates intent, capability and, indeed, tenacity.

There is also the insider threat to consider, whereby an individual in an organisation may place a device for eavesdropping purposes. Insider threats can be from corrupt, compromised, disgruntled staff or from contractors. They can be among the hardest threats to identify. In order to fulfil its role, the UK National Authority for Counter Eavesdropping needs to be able to identify illicit and covert eavesdropping devices that may be present in sensitive and classified areas and then identify the user behind the device using communications data. We are now all experts in that particular agency.

There were a number of questions, particularly from the noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Foulkes, about agencies being added and taken away, about why that happens and about the purposes of the various agencies that have been added. For clarity, the authorities we are talking about are the Pensions Regulator, the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, the Environment Agency and the Insolvency Service. It was right that those powers were removed in 2015, just as it is right for them to be reinstated now. We cannot foresee how operational requirements will evolve in response to the crimes that public authorities are investigating. We need to have the option to add and remove authorities depending on the necessity of the powers; the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was right that it is nothing to do with the coalition. This is precisely why the IPA included the power to add and remove bodies from Schedule 4.

These authorities have all demonstrated a strong necessity and proportionality case against similar criteria that the Home Office applied when removing powers in 2015. Those criteria were: the statutory responsibilities of the authorities with access; the seriousness of the offences that they investigate; and the number of requests that they made. As is demonstrated by the case of the Civil Nuclear Constabulary in particular, which does not expect to use the powers often, assessing the volume of applications made is perhaps not the most effective of criteria for deciding which bodies should be listed in Schedule 4. The risk here is just too high to ignore. A public authority can make infrequent use of powers, yet still lead on investigations where communications data is critical.

I congratulate my noble friend Lord Naseby on celebrating his diamond wedding anniversary today.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Tomorrow.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

In fact, I think I ought to congratulate his wife more than him on enduring 60 years of marital bliss with my noble friend.

My noble friend talked about local fly-tipping. That is precisely the type of thing for which the Environment Agency might wish to use its communications data powers to protect the natural environment. Its statutory duties include the protection of the environment, natural resources and, of course, human health, which fly-tipping affects. It prosecutes offences that create serious risks of harm to people and the environment, such as illegal landfills and hazardous waste disposal—that might come under my noble friend’s question—and treatment and shipments. Its remit encompasses more than 400 different offences and it encounters some 40,000 suspected offences each year. Of course, we know that waste crime costs the economy in excess of £600 million a year.

Back in 2018, the Secretary of State for the Environment announced an independent review into waste crime, which published the report Independent Review into Serious and Organised Crime in the Waste Sector. That report recommended that the Home Office grant communications data powers under Part 3 of the Investigatory Powers Act. We have a duty to respond to that recommendation.

My noble friend asked about the DHSC. Its inclusion has nothing to do with financial matters; it is purely because its name has changed. He also talked about the Pensions Regulator. It is sad to say so, but criminality in pensions is not only a present threat but a growing one. It is recognised as a risk by the Pensions Regulator and its supporting regulatory partners, including the Serious Fraud Office, the National Crime Agency and HMRC. Having previously referred cases to law enforcement partners to prosecute, the Pensions Regulator now actively leads on these types of investigations and the prosecution of offenders. As my noble friend will appreciate, communications data will be a vital tool in assisting these investigations.

The Pensions Regulator took ownership of Project Bloom from the NCA in 2016. Bloom is a multiagency approach to pension scams and fraud. The Pensions Regulator can evidence £500 million-worth of scams in its regulatory remit, which is quite significant. It estimates that the ongoing threat runs into several billion pounds. Through Project Bloom, the Pensions Regulator has been running a communications campaign with the FCA featuring national television advertising campaigns, which noble Lords may well have seen.

The noble Lord also asked about states, such as Delaware, that do not co-operate. It is to companies rather than states that these requests will be made. That is an important point. Overseas territories do not use it.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, asked about the review. It has not yet appeared because the agreement is not yet in force. I am sure that when it is the review will be forthcoming.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, asked about temporary powers. Those statutory powers will last for one year. He asked about the IPCO’s role in all this. It will cover its role in the agreement and in the annual report, which is publicly available.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, rightly asked about the business cases, which I did not go into at great length because they are sensitive and extremely lengthy. Reflecting on that thought, I am very happy to organise a private session to go through the business cases for interested noble Lords. The noble Lord also asked about the consultation period under the Investigatory Powers Act. A 12-week period is required for consultation with relevant public authorities and the IPCO on Schedule 4 changes.

The noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Rosser, asked how many organisations have applied and been turned down. I do not know the answer to that question, but I can find out. They also covered the death penalty assurances, which they know are being sought. It was interesting that we have received assurances from the US that should the UK accede to the 2015 MLA request by transferring evidence, the death penalty will not be sought or imposed in any prosecution in the recent case of Kotey and Elsheikh. I hope noble Lords will understand—I know they will—that it would not be appropriate to comment any further while legal challenges are ongoing in that case.

The noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Paddick, talked about additional resources. They are well-versed in our ambitions for 20,000 police officers. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also asked about lowering the rank. Quite simply, no lowering of the rank is required. On the ISC, it is not a requirement in the legislation already using the enhanced procedure—laid for 40 days and debated in both Houses—but I fundamentally agree with the noble Lords that engagement with the ISC is an important factor.

The final question to which I have an answer is about safeguards, raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. I am sure the IPCO will lay out any concerns the commissioner has in his annual report, particularly on any safeguarding issues around the whole regime.

I will leave it there for now. I will attempt to answer any questions I have not answered in writing.

Motion agreed.

Covid-19: UK Border Health Measures

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

If someone arrived from Dublin in the last 14 days, they would not have to quarantine. I can see that people will want to flout some of the rules and will try to find loopholes. I can only say that these rules are put in place to keep people safe and save lives.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Are these proposals intended to cover all airports or just the major airports? The same goes for the shipping ports. Does my noble friend remember that when we were trying to tackle illegal immigration people came through the minor airports? Secondly, are we to audit what happens, certainly at our major airports, so that a report can be done about this at a reasonable interval so that we know what has happened?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I can barely hear my noble friend, but I assure him that all the airports that are open will be subject to these monitoring arrangements and locator forms. I am so sorry that I did not get the rest of my noble friend’s question. Perhaps we can take this offline.

India: Scam Call Centres

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 21st April 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government take fraud very seriously and are committed to combatting it. The City of London Police, which is the national lead force for fraud, has partnered with law enforcement and industry to combat call centre fraud from India and other jurisdictions. UK authorities continue to work with their Indian counterparts on a case-by-case basis to target criminals responsible for defrauding members of the public and businesses.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is the Minister aware that I have lived, worked and visited India, and I know both good and rogue call centres there? The BBC recently exposed call centres that target UK elderly people, saying that their computer is frozen and giving them a phone number for technical support that will unfreeze it in return for payment. These are vulnerable people who are currently in self-isolation. They are elderly people with no family support and are worried stiff that they will lose their only means of visual communication, so they pay up. Will the Minister urgently link up with the City of London Police fraud action force and the National Crime Agency to put real pressure on the Indian Central Bureau of Investigation to act on this matter?

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

Minister. I was going to add “Baroness Williams of Trafford”, because I did not introduce you the first time.

Sale of Knives

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in doing so I declare an interest, in that my daughter has a cook-shop in Bedford.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, it has been an offence for many years to sell a knife to anyone under 18 in England and Wales, including kitchen knives. The Offensive Weapons Act 2019 will further strengthen the law on the online sale and delivery of knives. We continue to work with retailers to ensure that they have effective measures in place to prevent underage sales of knives.

[Lord Naseby]

Does my noble friend agree that we should pay tribute to the supermarkets and others which have carried out age challenges? Are there not two other areas we should seriously consider concerning the awful challenge that we face? First, could trading standards not do a thorough check throughout the retail trade and with the online trade in some way to ensure that everybody is complying with the age challenge? Secondly, could Her Majesty’s Government not consider introducing legislation to extend the Primary Authority scheme to knives as soon as possible, ideally in the Queen’s Speech?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I join my noble friend in paying tribute to the supermarkets and the work they have done in this area. I think it is Morrisons and Lidl which have decided not to sell knives in store. Asda has stopped selling single knives and other supermarkets have either stopped or restricted the sale of knives in areas where levels of knife crime are particularly high. We enforce this Act through trading standards and the use of test purchase operations in store and online. The £500,000 prosecution fund, which was introduced as part of the serious violence strategy, helps trading standards to prosecute rogue retailers that repeatedly fail test purchases.

Terrorist and Extremist Propaganda: Online Sources

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are taking to combat terrorist and extremist propaganda released through multimedia channels, particularly social media, videos, the internet, and other online sources.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, before I begin, I wish Muslims here and all round the world Eid Mubarak.

The Government have been clear that there should be no safe space online for terrorists and their supporters to radicalise, recruit, incite or inspire. We continue to work closely with industry to come up with innovative ways to tackle terrorists’ use of the internet.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware of the detailed and excellent work done by the Henry Jackson Society, which proves that if a radicalised individual sees material such as a beheading video, he or she is likely to act within two to three weeks? My noble friend mentioned industry, but is she further aware that Facebook, Microsoft, YouTube, Google and Twitter have teamed up to make the servicing of hostile material very difficult? Nevertheless, that does not cover encryption of messages, there are no financial penalties as there are in Germany, and videos are taken down only when there is a complaint. Against that background, will Her Majesty’s Government move with all possible speed to ensure that the agreements between those companies are tightened up even further, and look at the other elements that I have mentioned?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, my noble friend is right that the move to actual radicalisation can be very quick indeed. I pay tribute to the Counter Terrorism Internet Referral Unit, which since 2010 has helped to secure the removal of 270,000 pieces of material from the internet by social media providers—8,000 a month in 2016 alone. The CTIRU was the first of its kind globally and continues to be world-leading in its operation. My noble friend mentioned encryption, and we support the use of strong encryption. However, we must also ensure that, in tightly prescribed circumstances, our law enforcement and security and intelligence agencies are able to access the communications of criminals, including terrorists.

Economy: High Street Trade

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 10th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, in asking the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I declare an interest in that a member of my family is a retailer.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, there is no plan to undertake a review in England. In Wales this is a matter for the Welsh Assembly. The Government have taken action. Our high streets will benefit from the £6 billion business rates support package announced by the Chancellor at the Budget. We have also given more than £18 million to fund successful initiatives such as Love Your Local Market and the Great British High Street competition, and announced a digital pilot programme.

[Lord Naseby]

I recognise the work that Her Majesty’s Government have done to help retailers. Nevertheless, in essence it amounts to a modest amount of tinkering. Is my noble friend aware that 36 major chains have gone bankrupt, thousands of other retailers have stopped trading and retailers are faced with ever-increasing overheads, declining footfall and increasing competition from online? Against that background, will Her Majesty’s Government review the statement that the Minister has just made and recognise that we need a fairer tax covering both retailers and online trading, and that possibly that means a turnover tax rather than a property tax?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for recognising what the Government have done. He talked about various chains going bankrupt and the declining footfall on our high streets. In fact, footfall is now increasing and some high streets have responded very well to the changing patterns of the high street. The ones that have responded well are seeing very good results; for example, in my own town of Altrincham the market has almost completely revitalised the town centre.

Northern Powerhouse

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 24th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, they might not have heard of the northern powerhouse but—as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves—they certainly will have felt the effects of it. In Yorkshire, for example, more jobs have been created than in the whole of France put together. As I also said to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, there has been, in the north-west, the highest employment growth, and in the north-east, the highest rate of business start-ups. Whether people label that as the northern powerhouse, or just say that life feels a bit better, they should certainly feel the benefits. In terms of a strategy, we have a simple one: to enable areas of the north to maximise their economic potential.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that during the last recess, I went to see my tailor in Ossett? While talking to other people who were shopping at that particular retailer, I felt that there was a great vibrancy about the local town council there, and what it was doing. Also, although Bedfordshire is not in the northern powerhouse, as far as I am concerned the town councillors there do a first-class job as well.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for that question. I was not aware that he had gone to Oxford in the recess—perhaps I should have been. He is absolutely right: town councils now feel very much more empowered in driving forward the future of their communities. So I am not surprised to hear that the particular town council he talked about was feeling very upbeat.

Retail Sector: High Street

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Thursday 17th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, in asking my Question, I declare an interest in that a member of my family works in the retail trade.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, our high streets are changing and the Government are committed to helping them adapt—for example, by tackling planning and parking restrictions. We have also introduced a £1.4 billion package of support for 2015-16 business rate bills. Approximately half of that will go to the retail sector.

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, my noble friend’s Answer is indeed helpful but does not really reflect the crisis facing our town centres, with 10% of properties empty, declining footfall and business leaching away to online and retail parks. Against that background, in addition to what Her Majesty’s Government are doing, I wish to put two thoughts in my noble friend’s mind. First, encourage all local authorities to make parking easier and cheaper—for instance, my former constituency of Northampton has free parking all weekend and two hours free every single day. Secondly, look closely at what Northampton’s business support programme is doing, and consider extending it on a shared basis between Her Majesty’s Government and local government so that we may see a significant reduction in business rates for independent retailers throughout the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is good to hear what Northampton is doing. I certainly encourage local areas to share similar schemes with other authorities. Where local authorities are given the power to provide business rate discounts, they do as they see fit and the Government will meet half the cost. The noble Lord asked me about vacancy rates. They have fallen to 9.8% and are at their lowest since records started in 2011. I appreciate the point about online sales, which for many people are becoming more convenient, but retail sales have increased for the 28th consecutive month, the longest sustained period since 2008.

Housing: Private Rented Sector

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 23rd June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

In all sincerity, I did not. There is a term, “to welch on an agreement”. I meant it as no insult. I simply meant to not meet one’s obligations.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that those of us who were in local government in the 1960s lived through the Rachman and De Lusignan eras, and that at that time local authorities such as the London Borough of Islington, where I was chairman of the housing committee, had to have a register of all rented accommodation? If there is a real problem at the moment, surely that is something Her Majesty’s Government should look at, and they should authorise local authorities to compile such a register. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with the sale of housing association properties to their tenants. The same scare was put up when we proposed selling council houses.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with the noble Lord that this has nothing to do with the sale of housing association homes. I think there will have been more council ownership of houses back in the 1960s. There are now a number of ways to guard against substandard accommodation, and tenants have more rights through various mechanisms than ever before.

I say to noble Lords opposite that I did not realise that, in using the term “welch”, I was insulting anybody. I do apologise if any bad feeling was caused through the use of that term.

Housing Associations: Right to Buy

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Tuesday 9th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The right reverend Prelate is absolutely correct when he says that rural communities are different. The development of that particular policy is ongoing, and details will be set out in due course.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords—

Greater Manchester: New Deal

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Monday 8th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the anticipated timescale of the new deal for Greater Manchester.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Greater Manchester devolution deal states that legislation will be passed to enable the first Greater Manchester city region mayor elections to take place in early 2017. The Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill, which was introduced into this House on 28 May, provides the necessary primary legislation framework to deliver the Greater Manchester deal and other future deals.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

I congratulate Her Majesty’s Government on introducing the Bill. Is the Minister aware that one of the benefits of electioneering is that it gives Peers the opportunity to see the real world? I canvassed in Northamptonshire, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire, each of which is really vibrant and active economically. Against that background, can Her Majesty’s Government, and the Minister in particular, look at these counties and similar counties and ensure that they can benefit from initiatives similar to those powers that are being given to Greater Manchester?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for his kind words. Like him, I canvassed and campaigned up and down the country. It was good to see the real world of the north of England. I take his point about our counties and what they have to offer. Each county is different, and each group of counties will be different, and the Government are certainly open to listening to any suggestions that they bring forward.

Business Rates: High Streets

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Monday 23rd February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest in that a member of my family works in the retail trade.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, since 2010 the Government have helped to create over 360 town teams and given over £18 million to towns, funding successful initiatives such as the Love Your Local Market and the Great British High Street portal and awards. In addition to over £1.4 billion in business rates support, we have eased restrictions on planning and are strengthening the role of business improvement districts and tackling aggressive parking enforcement.

[Lord Naseby]

It is very welcome to be reminded of all that the Government have done so far. Indeed, it is fair to say that this Government have done as much as any Government to help business in general. Nevertheless, are Her Majesty's Government aware that there is a real crisis in the high street? In particular, the high street is facing increasing competition from online, where businesses pay no business rates, as well as from out-of-town stores, where there is free parking and lower business rates? Against that situation, is it not bizarre that a 2% business rate is to be imposed, when the CPI is 0.5%? Against that, will my noble friend ensure that the review will bear those points in mind?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for pointing out what this Government have done to help the high street and businesses in general with business rates, relief corporation tax, help with national insurance contributions and easing up on some of the parking enforcement issues that are holding trade back.

My noble friend asked about online trade putting further pressures on the high street. In fact, online trade has in some ways benefited the high street through the massive increase in click and collect. I do not know about my noble friend, but every time I click and collect I click and collect some more while I am there. He also talked about out-of-town shopping centres and parking. What he says is true but, as I have said, we are clamping down on harsh enforcement. He also asked about the review of business rates. That is forthcoming, and there will be details on that shortly.

Allotments

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is progress. It may also help my noble friend to know that neighbourhood plans, which require local communities to work with local councils, will now inform planning committees when they make decisions, particularly with regard to allotments.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that surely there is an opportunity to communicate what is happening on allotments through the council tax notice that goes out each year? Will she look into the possibility of asking local authorities to highlight exactly what they are doing on allotments and where young people in particular can find out more information about them?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there is indeed an opportunity for local authorities to promote what they do, but that is a matter for those local authorities. Certainly, I know that my local authority promotes things like that, because they are so good for the health and well-being of communities.

Alcohol: Sale to Children

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Naseby

Wednesday 19th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is my understanding that the consultation was open to both businesses and members of the public.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that I sat on the pre-legislative scrutiny committee for the Deregulation Bill, and that it was made clear to the members of that committee that, yes, each department was asked to put forward proposals, and anybody— an organisation, an individual or any party that had validity in the United Kingdom—could make representations? Indeed, in some areas huge numbers of representations were received. My noble friend is absolutely right. Representations did not come just from business; it was open to anybody who wanted to make a submission on liqueur chocolates to do so.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That is indeed my understanding. I thank my noble friend for his clarification.