Children: Online Grooming

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I have to say to my noble and learned friend that in local authorities, particularly when local authority systems are being used, there are firewalls to prevent some types of abuse, but if a child has a smart phone with such things as Messenger or Snapchat on it, it is incredibly difficult for local authorities to keep tabs on children who are at the end of such coercive behaviour. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of Cradley, talked about the online harms Bill next year: that is going to be crucial, because it will place a duty of care on service providers and social media platforms to actually protect vulnerable people from this sort of thing.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, following up on the Minister’s reply to the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, she may be aware that industry compliance in taking down child abuse images fell by 89% in the first month of lockdown. What tools are the Government using, or threatening to use, to ensure that social media companies such as Facebook design and deliver platforms and services that put child protection front and centre?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can guess at several of the factors, but one might be the ever-increasing use of encryption, so that not only can parents not see what their children are doing, but nor can the local authority or, actually, the internet providers themselves. This is at the heart of what the Home Secretary and Five Eyes partners are trying to discourage going forward.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Home Secretary speaks every day to operational partners—the NCA, the police and the NPCC. It is not just that we are aware of the dangers of children being at home with their computers and not at school; significant effort has been undertaken to mitigate some of the potential for harm to children over this period. As for production of the report, that will come in due course.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, on 10 September 2018, the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, promised, in response to my question about an extra seminar on mandatory reporting, that

“the Government are committed to ensuring that legislation can adequately deal with this”—[Official Report, 10/9/18; col. 2093.]

issue, and would scope it fully “during the current Parliament”. Has that scoping taken place and, if so, what was the result?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I cannot answer on behalf of my noble friend Lord Agnew but I will certainly get him to respond to the noble Baroness.

Child Sex Predators

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, will the Government provide the 10% of funding for the UK Safer Internet Centre currently provided by the European Union after the end of the transition phase of leaving the EU? Childnet gets 50% of its funding from the EU, so is even more vulnerable.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, efforts to combat CSA come from a number of funding sources, from the Home Office and elsewhere, and various NGOs. We will base our funding decisions on the best needs of children in this country and how to keep them safe.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is absolutely right: a response is required and will be forthcoming very shortly. On top of that, the Government are acutely aware of the age and declining health of so many former child migrants. We are, as I say, committed to providing a considered response to the inquiry’s recommendations as soon as possible.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that every week the Government delay in taking a grip on this issue means more young people having their lives destroyed? When they are considering their response, will the Government take account of the mounting evidence, added to only this week by evidence about the Catholic Church, that unless people are forced to report child abuse to external agencies, and report only within the agency concerned, very often these organisations will cover it up because they are afraid of reputational damage? Will the Government take that into account?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally accept the noble Baroness’s point—I have just made it myself—that nobody wants to see any further delay, certainly given the age of some of these former child migrants. On reporting sexual abuse to external agencies, the noble Baroness is absolutely right: unless there is a proper system of support for these allegations, there is then further opportunity for internal cover-up.

Drugs Licensing

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the Statement and thank the Minister for making it. I thank her also for her efforts in this cause and those of her noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, who is in his place. I welcome the fact that Professor Sally Davies will now review the mountain of evidence for the medicinal and therapeutic benefit of cannabis-based medicines. She will undoubtedly find that the fact that there are no legally recognised benefits is quite wrong and must change. By what means will Professor Davies hear evidence from the many patients who already know about the benefits? Their doctors know the benefits, too. If she does not already, I am quite sure that Professor Davies will soon know them as well.

I also welcome the fact that the Government will reschedule cannabis when Professor Davies demonstrates those benefits. It should never have been scheduled as a drug without any medical benefits in the first place. Can the Minister estimate how long this process will take, as thousands of patients await the outcome in pain and discomfort?

While we wait for this to be done, it is very welcome that the Government have set up an expert panel to advise Ministers on any applications to prescribe cannabis medicines. It is outrageous that the Dingley family’s heroic doctors should have been put through the wringer by the inappropriate processes which the Home Office has imposed on them during the past four months.

I cannot say how delighted I am that Alfie Dingley and Billy Caldwell will get their medicines at last. However, it should not have taken four months since the Prime Minister promised Alfie’s mother, Hannah Deacon, when she visited No. 10 with me and a group of Peers and MPs, that her son would get a licence for his cannabis medicines on compassionate grounds and speedily. During that four-month period Home Office officials were trying, mistakenly, to operate a system for licensing which was not intended for such cases but was intended for normal clinical trials. It became clear very quickly that the system they were trying to use was not fit for purpose, yet they persisted. I would like to be assured that a system that is fit for purpose will be put in place. Will the Minister give me that assurance? It should not have taken a child, Billy Caldwell, being put in a life-threatening situation for the Government to take this action but I am delighted that they now have.

During the campaign I have been convinced of the Minister’s good faith in this matter but, frankly, although she is always welcome in her place, it should be a Health Minister standing there at the Dispatch Box. I am delighted to see the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, in his place listening to this debate. Drug licensing is a health matter, not a Home Office matter and clearly the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care agrees with that, so how will the Department of Health and Social Care be involved in the new arrangements outlined in the Statement and those that will inevitably follow?

Yesterday the Prime Minister said a system is already in place for the medicinal use of cannabis and that government policy would be driven by “what clinicians are saying”. The system has failed thousands of patients, but it is good news that the Government are now trying to put that right, and I thank the Minister for that. Can she say whether expert evidence from countries such as the Netherlands, where cannabis medicines have been safely used for some time, will be heard during the review?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I did not do it yesterday, but I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, back to his place. It is such a pleasure to be debating with him. The first question he asked me was about whether we are doing this on the hoof given the Alfie Dingley case. We are not. One of the noble Lord’s further questions was about why it took so long between Alfie Dingley’s family coming forward and him being issued with a licence today. That is because the correct process was followed. Noble Lords would expect the correct process to be followed. The reverse of this is that a child gets given the wrong drug and becomes very ill. The correct process was followed here. The Home Office and the Department of Health and Social Care have worked extensively together over the past three months to ensure that Alfie has been well cared for, and the licence for his drugs was issued today.

The noble Lord asked how many people would be on the panel. I cannot say. It was announced today, and numbers and people will be announced in the coming week. He asked about the criteria the panel will use for who will be issued with drugs. I assume that there will be clinical experts on the panel and that they will base their criteria on their clinical judgment of the benefits.

On stuff being confiscated, I hope that people do not present at the border with drugs that are not yet licensed, and will come forward to the panel for consideration and for drugs to be issued if that is appropriate. The noble Lord asked how long the review will take. Cannabis is a very complex substance, as noble Lords probably know. It will be a complex review, but the Home Secretary expects an interim report to him within three months.

The noble Lord asked about the expert panel and the advice that it will give. Again, the proper process will be followed. It will be a scientific process with clinical judgment at its heart. He also made the Private Eye point about the UK being the largest producer of cannabis. I do not think that the Government are saying that there are no benefits to be had from cannabis; they are saying that cannabis as a whole plant is currently classified as a Schedule 1 drug, as we have discussed previously. However, as we have seen, constituent parts of it have huge benefits, particularly in the areas of MS and, now, epilepsy.

The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked for details of the review. We are working through those. I certainly know, because my noble friend has just told me, that Sally Davies will be carrying out a literature review. There are findings from across the world. Much work has been done on this and that will be very informative.

The noble Baroness also made the point about the Dingley family being put through the wringer. Again, it was important that the proper process was followed, and it was. A licence application needed to be made. It was made and I am very pleased to say that Alfie Dingley’s licence was issued today. She asked for an assurance that a system fit for purpose will be put in place. The answer to that is firmly yes: the system has to have longevity. This has been a very big and important step for the Government today.

Cannabis-based Medication

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 21st February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

With respect, I point out to the noble Lord that the Question is specifically about the medicinal use of cannabis for a very specific case. The noble Lord is probably straying on to the legalisation of drugs in a controlled way. I am not going there today because I have not been asked a question about it, but I have had many debates about it and the Government remain of the view that such drugs remain illegal.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

I am grateful to the Minister for her commitment to explore every option. Is she aware of the legal opinion from Landmark Chambers making it clear that there is an exception under Section 30 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, which allows that a licence for possession of a controlled drug can be permitted for medical purposes? Will she make use of that exception to save this little boy’s life?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Well, I hope that I made it absolutely clear that we would explore every legal avenue that we could, and that both the Policing Minister and the Home Secretary would look at all legal avenues within the regulatory framework, so I hope that she takes comfort from that.

Women: Events Industry

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think the noble Baroness has made the point that I was trying, perhaps not very articulately, to make. A gagging clause will not, in and of itself, protect an employer or someone who is, say, employing, a waitress for an evening. In fact, it will go further than that and void that contract or agreement.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if you want to influence the behaviour of men you should start when they are boys? That is why it is very important that the curriculum for PSHE lessons includes elements that ensure that young people leaving school understand that both genders should be properly respected.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. It is only in educating our children through PSHE, relationships and sex education that that culture of respect towards one another, the opposite sex, and, for young girls, towards themselves, will change.

Transfer of Responsibility for Relevant Children (Extension to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) Regulations 2017

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Monday 22nd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, in bringing forward this secondary legislation the Government are seeking to extend the scope of the national transfer scheme for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The scheme, which the Government launched on 1 July 2016, makes it easier for local authorities to transfer legal responsibility for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children to another participating local authority. The scheme is designed to encourage a fairer distribution of unaccompanied children in local authorities across the UK so that a small number of local authorities are no longer asked to look after a disproportionate number of unaccompanied children and safeguard the best interests of the children concerned.

The national transfer scheme is underpinned by provisions in Part 5 of the Immigration Act 2016. Section 69 of the Act creates a mechanism in England to transfer the responsibility for caring for unaccompanied children from one local authority to another. Section 70 enables the Secretary of State to direct local authorities to provide information about their support to children in their care. Section 71 enables the Secretary of State to direct a local authority that refuses to comply with a request to accept an unaccompanied asylum-seeking child, with written reasons explaining its refusal. Finally, Section 72 enables the Secretary of State to require local authorities to co-operate in the transfer of unaccompanied children from one local authority to another.

These provisions currently apply only to English local authorities. This has meant that local authorities in Wales and Scotland and health and social care trusts in Northern Ireland have not participated in the scheme so far. In extending the scope of the transfer provisions in the Act, this statutory instrument provides the legal framework for local authorities in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to accept transfers under the scheme.

I want to make it clear that the national transfer scheme was designed as a voluntary scheme and we hope that local authorities in Scotland and Wales and health and social care trusts in Northern Ireland will feel able to participate. My officials have worked closely with their counterparts in the devolved Administrations and the local government associations in Scotland and Wales to take account of the unique circumstances in each nation.

As I have already mentioned, there are provisions in the Act for the Secretary of State to mandate the scheme. The Government want the scheme to remain a collaborative effort between central, local and devolved government, and it is in that vein that we have worked with partners across the UK to develop proposals to extend the scheme.

The national transfer scheme has made significant progress since it was launched in July 2016, and we are grateful for the support provided by local authorities that are looking after unaccompanied children. Up to the end of September 2017, 555 unaccompanied children had successfully been transferred. That is a significant achievement but obviously there is more to do. There are still more than 4,500 unaccompanied children in English local authorities, and a handful of local authorities continue to look after a disproportionate number. If we are to achieve a fairer distribution of caring responsibilities across the UK, we need local authorities from all parts of the UK to be able to participate in the scheme so that all children can be afforded the best possible care and support.

We know there is support for the national transfer scheme across the country. That is why it is so important for this legislation to come into force: so that we can build on the excellent work of local authorities in every part of the UK in caring for asylum-seeking and refugee children, and ensure that the national transfer scheme is truly national. I beg to move.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches support the national transfer scheme. We believe it is only fair that it should be extended, preferably on a voluntary basis, to the devolved Administrations, particularly since they have been widely consulted. We thank and congratulate those local authorities that have accepted children. Often it is a significant burden, particularly to certain local authorities because of their geographical location, so it is only right that the burden should be spread.

However, I have some questions. How many unaccompanied asylum-seeking children have already been received by the devolved Administrations under the voluntary scheme? What representations have been received from the devolved Administrations about the adequacy of the financial support available to them? How well are families who look after asylum-seeking children supported? There are considerable language and cultural issues with which they need support.

What about the social workers and, preferably, guardians who are needed to steer the children through the process of giving statements to solicitors and to the Home Office? They need advice on the meaning of, for example, “leave until 17 and a half”, which actually means the refusal of an asylum application although it does not sound like it. They need proper professional advice. Lastly, under the present circumstances, what will be the effect on these regulations, if any, of the lack of a power-sharing Administration in Northern Ireland?

Terrorist Attack: Response

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am certainly very happy to send congratulations to Cressida Dick. I do not think I am the first Minister to do so, but perhaps I am the first Minister in your Lordships’ House to do so. It is a very good appointment, and, of course, she is the first female Metropolitan Police Commissioner.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that confidence that they know what they are doing enables people to step forward in these situations, rather like the rugby player who recently stepped forward to give first aid to a member of the opposing team? Does she therefore agree that it is in response not just to terrorism but to the ordinary traumas of everyday life that we should all have a look at the citizensAID training?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. It is about the simple things, and the benefit of the citizenAID app is that there are very simple things that people can do, once they are in a safe place themselves, to help people and potentially save lives.

Alcohol

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I concur with much of what the noble Lord has said. It is frustrating to have to do so but it is important to wait for the outcome of the Scotch Whisky Association case in Scotland. I totally agree that alcohol-related admissions to hospital are worrying, as is the fact that alcohol is now the leading health risk factor for people between 15 and 49, which is a very wide age group. That is not to mention the cost to the public purse.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, the Chief Medical Officer has shown evidence that heavy drinking under the age of 20 can cause abnormalities in the brain in those areas that deal with motivation, reasoning and interpersonal skills. In the interests of the future health, happiness and productivity of our young adults will the Government choose the policy option which is most likely to reduce drinking by teenagers who do not have a lot of money: minimum pricing?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the PHE alcohol evidence review certainly talked about reducing the affordability of alcohol being one of the most effective, and cost-effective, ways of reducing alcohol harm. Back in 2013, the coalition Government pledged to look at minimum unit pricing. We will keep it under review in the light of the outcome of the Scottish case. I also concur with what the noble Baroness said about the developing brain. The overuse of both alcohol and cannabis has been shown to have very serious consequences for mental health.

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 30th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, this amendment brings us back to the use of Tasers. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, for taking on board the points raised when we debated this issue in Committee and coming back with a revised amendment. My noble friends Lord Hailsham and Lord Attlee have given us a flavour of what we discussed then.

Any use of force by police officers in psychiatric wards on patients—or on any member of the public in any setting for that matter—must be appropriate, proportionate, necessary and conducted as safely as possible. When police officers need to attend and use force, they must be able to account for their actions. As the noble Lords, Lord Dear and Lord Rosser, and my noble friend Lord Hailsham indicated in Committee, a blanket ban on the use of Tasers in psychiatric wards would remove this valuable police tactic when they are dealing with potentially very violent situations.

[Baroness Walmsley]

I am sorry to interrupt—

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not usually take interventions on Report, although I will acquiesce to the noble Baroness because she did not speak for very long.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Walmsley]

I will wait until I respond.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I welcome the fact that the noble Baroness now accepts that there will be exceptional circumstances. My noble friend Lord Hailsham has very clearly outlined what exceptional circumstances would be, and I explained in Committee that it was when all other options for restraint had failed, particularly when the person has perhaps had to be kept at length from the police officer—in other words when going near the person would create a danger for other people.

The Taser was introduced to be used at that intermediate stage. It is to be used where de-escalation at the lower end has already been tried but has failed, and where the officer deems that other options—ranging from the use of lethal force, as my noble friend said, at the higher end—will not resolve the immediate threat in the safest and most proportionate way.

With regard to recording incidents, as the noble Baroness pointed out, each officer who deploys a Taser is required to complete a Taser evaluation form on every occasion where the device is used. The form should be completed prior to the end of each tour of duty, but in any case within 24 hours of the use. The police forces’ lead Taser officer is responsible for reviewing, collating and recording all Taser evaluation forms.

In Committee I explained that new police data were being collected on the use of force by officers, including force used in a hospital setting, to further improve the existing system of recording and reporting. Police forces are working to implement this new recording system and we expect data to be published as part of the Home Office’s annual data return in summer 2018 to ensure that the use of Tasers is absolutely transparent.

I put it to the noble Baroness that effective scrutiny of the use of Tasers is a better way forward than seeking to legislate. No officer will use a Taser lightly and will seek to argue that there were indeed exceptional circumstances. I have already pointed to the anomaly that this amendment would create in respect of the use of lethal force—no one wants to see that happen—if a safer tactic was unavailable. I hope the noble Baroness will feel happy to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Walmsley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Anyone hearing what has been said in the House tonight would think that I was asking for a ban on the use of Tasers. If noble Lords read my amendment carefully, they will realise that that is not what it would do. It accepts what the Government said in Committee, and during meetings that we had at the Home Office, that there may be exceptional circumstances. That is why I am no longer asking for a ban; I make that absolutely clear to noble Lords who have spoken.

However, it is a very serious matter for a police officer to use a Taser, as the Minister herself has said, in which case I think it would be helpful to the police if the Secretary of State were to specify clearly what is meant by “exceptional circumstances”. The noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, has tried this evening to give a very simple account of what that means, and indeed the Minister has done the same. If it is that simple, why can it not be done? I think it would help the police.

I am aware that, following discussion in another place of an amendment similar to this one, a lot more information is now to be collected about the use of Tasers. I think that is a very good thing, and I look forward to seeing what we can learn from it. However, in this amendment I seek to be helpful to the police and to protect them by making very clear what they can and cannot do, and under what circumstances. But clearly the Government are not going to accept that, so I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Mental Health Units: Police Response

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is right to raise this issue. The Government recognise the need to invest in places of safety and £15 million has been allocated to 88 projects in England to improve provision for those in mental health crises, including increasing places of safety.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Will the Minister define what she means by the last possible option? What are the Government doing to develop a humane alternative to the use of Tasers in psychiatric wards?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am happy to tell the noble Baroness what I mean by “last possible option”. Something like Taser would be used only when all other methods of restraint are deemed not appropriate or to have failed, and where distance is required between the police and the person who is being extremely violent. That is what I mean by the last option. As to never using it, we can never say that it will not be used because the alternatives—I talked about this with the noble Baroness the other day—are to use more extreme methods of restraint, and we would not want that.

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - part one): House of Lords
Wednesday 2nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I start by thanking all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. Although there have been opposing views on the amendment, it has provided a very balanced set of points. This group of amendments includes two proposed new clauses about police use of Tasers. As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, explained, her amendment seeks to bar the use by police officers of a Taser or other electroshock device in psychiatric wards.

Any use of force by police officers in psychiatric wards, or in any other setting, must be appropriate and proportionate—the noble Lords, Lord Harris and Lord Dear, the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, and my noble friend Lord Attlee made that point and gave some very good examples this evening. The use of force must be necessary and conducted as safely as possible. Therefore, it is right that if police officers need to attend and use force, they should be expected to account for their actions, as the noble Lord, Lord Harris, said.

It remains the Government’s position that the deployment of police officers to mental health settings, and the tactics used, should remain an operational matter for the police force in question. Tasers are an important tactical option for police officers. Unfortunately, some of the most extreme behaviour can occur in mental health settings and can escalate to the point where it can be met only with force—as dictated by the high degree of urgency and grave threat to staff and other patients. I am talking about cases where other de-escalation tactics have probably been tried and have failed. Again, the noble Lords, Lord Harris and Lord Dear, and the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, made those points.

A blanket ban on the use of Tasers on psychiatric wards, as proposed by this amendment, would remove this valuable police tactic and therefore potentially reduce the safety of officers, hospital staff and indeed patients. In some extreme cases, it could leave officers with no choice but to use another, potentially more dangerous option as the only means to resolve a violent situation and keep others safe. The same noble Lords made these points. Police officers themselves have made it clear that they would not want their options constrained by a blanket ban on Tasers. Officers have a range of tactics and equipment available, and a Taser is but one of them. In deciding which tactic to use, an officer will assess which is likely to be most effective and proportionate.

The Government accept that more can and should be done to ensure that all uses of force, including of Tasers, are necessary and proportionate. For this reason, the former Home Secretary asked former chief constable David Shaw to lead an in-depth review of the publication of use-of-force data, including data on where force is being used, such as in a hospital setting, to ensure that the use of these sensitive powers is transparent. With the agreement of fellow chief officers, Chief Constable Shaw recommended that every time the police use a significant level of force on an individual, such as the use of Tasers, a range of core data must be recorded. This includes ethnicity, age and location, so that we will be able to identify every time force is used in a hospital or mental health setting. The data will enable thorough scrutiny of proportionality and effectiveness.

That brings in the point that I think the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, made about force seeming to be used more in some places than in others. All forces have worked to implement this new recording system, and I anticipate that the collected data will form part of the 2017-18 Home Office annual data return. I can tell noble Lords that in 2015 there were 10,329 uses of Tasers by police. Actual firings of the device—this is an important point—accounted for 17%. Non-discharges —where the Taser is drawn, aimed, arced or red-dotted—accounted for 81% of Taser use. Red-dotting accounted for 51%—the most common use.

All forces have worked to implement this new recording system and, as I said, it should be in force in 2017-18. The Government have also taken further steps to ensure greater scrutiny of the use of Tasers in mental health settings at local level, where operational decisions are made. Charles Walker MP raised some valuable points on this matter during consideration of the Bill in the House of Commons.

Both Home Office and Department of Health Ministers have in the past few days written to police and crime commissioners, chief constables and the chairs of local mental health crisis care concordat partnerships to ask them to work together to ensure that sufficient local joint scrutiny arrangements are in place. As local leaders with overall responsibility for policing and mental health crisis care, they have been tasked with ensuring that mechanisms are in place in their areas for the joint identification and scrutiny of any use of Tasers in a mental health setting.

I expect this additional scrutiny to lead to all relevant policing and health partners working closely to look at the full circumstances surrounding police officers being called to attend, the specific circumstances of any use of Tasers, and the lessons they can learn for the future.

As I have said, the Government and police believe that a blanket ban on the use of Tasers in psychiatric settings risks the safety of the police, hospital staff and patients. That said, I agree that more should be done to ensure that any use of Tasers in such circumstances is open to effective scrutiny. That is an important point.

The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, goes rather wider in seeking a review of all police use of Tasers—not just in mental health settings. As I just explained, the Government are committed to ensuring that the police use their powers and tools proportionately and are keen that all use of force by the police—including Tasers—be recorded and published.

The benefits of the planned new data collection system will be to enable the police and others to review practice in certain locations, against certain groups, and so on. This will enable deeper examination of the reasons for the use of force and inform adjustments needed to guidance, policy and authorised professional practice, if any. We have asked the police and others to ensure that this happens and, on that basis, I hope the noble Baroness feels able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Walmsley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply and the noble Lords, Lord Ouseley and Lord Rosser, and my noble friend Lord Paddick for their support. I am sorry that I have been unable to take the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, or the noble Lords, Lord Dear and Lord Harris, along with me. I must say that I felt that in his enthusiasm in making his case, the noble Lord used somewhat unparliamentary language. In 16 years in your Lordships’ House, I have never been called silly before. The amendment was certainly not regarded as silly by the mental health patients who have approached us about the issue.

The noble Baroness mentioned that use should be appropriate, but we have had to move the amendment to highlight the issue today because it seems that “appropriate” has become a lot more frequent. We have heard some figures about the number of times that the police have been called in. At least the noble Lord, Lord Harris, was able at the end of his remarks to agree with me that part of the problem is undoubtedly the lack of sufficient properly trained staff in mental health wards, which needs to be addressed.

We will think carefully about what has been said on all sides of the argument between now and Report, but, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, for their explanation of the amendments. We appreciate that their intention is to ensure that the proper provision is made for vulnerable or traumatised children. We absolutely agree that we must ensure that such children never fall through the gaps between services, but I put it to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, that the overriding determinant of referral for health services must be clinical need. Not all children and young people who have been abused or exploited will develop a mental health problem, and intervening unnecessarily or inappropriately can in itself be harmful.

All that said, it is essential that healthcare practitioners who work with abused children and young people should have the capacity and capability to provide evidence-based treatment where needed. This will be addressed through the emerging workforce strategy, which is being put in place to deliver the key proposals in the Department of Health report on children’s mental health. The Department of Health is also introducing routine procedures so that sensitive inquiries are made to establish whether a child undergoing a mental health assessment has experienced neglect, violence or abuse. This will be an important step towards establishing a child’s or young person’s need for support. The important thing is that children and young people get the right care at the right time, based on their needs, not on a non-clinician’s view of their potential needs based on their experiences.

On amendment 221, it is worth adding that individuals, including children where appropriate, need to consent to receive treatment. Where a person indicates that they would like to avail themselves of any referral, consent can be sought for relevant personal details to be passed to the health provider, which is the proper course of action. It would be likely to be inappropriate, and in breach of data protection, automatically to pass on personal details and potentially sensitive information, even to a health provider. It may be helpful for noble Lords to know that NHS England published a Commissioning Framework for Adult and Paediatric Sexual Assault Referral Centres (SARC) Services in August 2015, which outlines the core services in SARCs and referral pathways to other services. They are now being rolled out throughout England.

On the basis of my remarks, I hope that the noble Baroness feels content to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Walmsley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister, though I hardly know where to start. I know that I want to keep my remarks short, as those here for the dinner-hour debate are waiting.

The Minister suggested that not all young people who have been abused require therapeutic help. Bearing in mind the figures that I gave at the beginning of my speech, we will not really know which 10% will not develop mental health problems unless we get them properly assessed. I may have used the wrong word—“refer”—in my amendment, but the point I am trying to make is that the police must ensure that the appropriate mental health commissioners in the area are made aware that a child may need therapeutic help and that an assessment should be done by a qualified person to find out whether they do. That is absolutely essential.

The fact is, we know that it is not always happening and that is why, as the noble Lord, Lord Harris, accepted, I felt it necessary to raise this, and I am not the only one. As I say, ChildLine also very much feels that this would be helpful.

Given the effect on the rest of the lives of these children, as my noble friend Lady Benjamin mentioned, a little bit of over-referral would not necessarily be a bad thing, because it will soon come out in the wash. If they do not need any help, it will soon be found out and the help will stop if it is not needed. The National Health Service is not going to give a whole lot of help to people who do not need it—it does not have the money. But the fact is that most of them do need it and it is not happening. After 16 years, I cannot believe that we are still here.

I will of course consider what the Minister has said and make further inquiries between now and Report stage in case it is not necessary, although I think it is. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am not going back on what I said on Monday. I think that I made clear on Monday that the accountability and functions of the bodies do not change.

[Baroness Walmsley]

On a point of elucidation, the Minister said that the Secretary of State could impose those conditions. Is there any circumstance in which the Secretary of State should not impose such fundamental conditions as she has outlined?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Sorry, would the noble Baroness say that again? I apologise.

[Baroness Walmsley]

I was just saying that the noble Baroness said that the Secretary of State could impose conditions such as meeting the current statutory duties of the Secretary of State or NHS England. I wondered whether there would be any circumstances in which the Secretary of State should not impose such conditions, because I think that they are pretty fundamental to standards.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not know of any such situation where he should not, but obviously each deal will be different. I cannot speak to a theoretical situation, but no one is suggesting that the Secretary of State loses the powers, particularly in respect of his ultimate accountability to Parliament for the provision of NHS services.

Most of the limitations and conditions that the noble Lord, Lord Warner, outlines could be specified in an order using the provisions, if doing so were considered appropriate in the context of a bespoke devolution deal. For example, we could enable a conferral of health powers on a combined authority to be accompanied by a condition that the combined authority must also meet the current statutory duties held variously by the Secretary of State for Health, NHS England and clinical commissioning groups.

Further safeguards are already provided by other provisions in the Bill. Before making an order to transfer functions, the Secretary of State must consider that such a transfer will improve the exercise of statutory functions. The Secretary of State is also bound by various duties in relation to the health service when exercising his functions. These are set out in the NHS Act 2006, and concern duties such as the duty to act with a view to securing continuous improvement in the quality of services and to have regard to the need to reduce health inequalities. Such duties would be relevant here and, in making an order transferring health service functions, he would be obliged to discharge them.

The order implementing a particular devolution deal must be debated and approved by both Houses of Parliament, and Parliament’s consideration will be supported by the laying in Parliament of a report setting out the detail of the deal, a new requirement under the provisions in Amendment 33, which the House passed on Monday. Those reports will set out and explain the full deal—that is, the wider context in which any order is being made. Hence, the report will set out and describe any memorandum of understanding that councils in the area, the combined authority and the various NHS bodies involved have agreed. That memorandum of understanding will describe and make clear the nature of the devolution agreement, including the degree of permanence or how long it is expected to last. We can see this in the MoU which Greater Manchester has entered into.

Amendment 66 would also require a combined authority to publish an annual report on its deal in relation to health. As we have noted previously, there will be a process for evaluating the progress on each deal agreed with each area as part of the deal. For example, the Greater Manchester deal has an extensive programme of evaluation, with evaluations being public documents available to all with an interest in the area and the progress that it is making. In this context, it is not appropriate to make a requirement about the reporting or evaluation of some particular aspect of a deal—indeed, an aspect that may not be in all the deals which are agreed.

We do not feel there is a need to restrict the ability of the Secretary of State to intervene as set out in Amendment 66. The Secretary of State is already under a duty when exercising functions in relation to the health service to have regard to, always subject to the interests of the health service, the autonomy of the bodies exercising health functions.

Women in the Workplace

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 9th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend will appreciate that I do not remember it, but he demonstrates, as always, a very good point.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, following the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, will the Minister say why the Government have pushed the introduction of tax-free childcare on by another year? Surely the watchword of this Budget was not “a Budget for security” but “jam tomorrow for hard-working families with children”.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think noble Lords will agree that it is certainly going in the right direction.

Higher Education: Funding

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 8th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, that figure varies—I think that my noble friend is referring to the RAB charge—because of macroeconomic factors such as earning potential and, therefore, the ability to repay. It is currently estimated to be around 45%.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, how many mortgage lenders are taking student loans into account when considering applications for mortgages?

Domestic Violence

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Would the Minister include footballers in that group of people who should be showing an example?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I would say that especially footballers have a duty to reflect good behaviour to young adults.

Children: Alcohol Harm

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Monday 17th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I said that minimum unit pricing was “under consideration”. It is, and the case of Scotland is being closely watched. On alcohol in forms other than liquid, the rules set a limit of 0.2 litres per kilogram of confection. That is to stop vast quantities of alcohol being put into food. That is the situation as I understand it.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Is my noble friend the Minister aware that all good PSHE courses contain some alcohol education and should be taught in every school? Does she agree that when children become involved in sport, they become very aware of their bodies’ efficiency and the effect of alcohol and are much less likely to drink more than a minimal amount? Therefore, what are the Government doing to encourage all schools to teach PSHE and children to take part in sport?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with my noble friend. Good PSHE in schools will certainly refer to that. Schools have a duty to teach children about the harms of drug, alcohol and tobacco abuse. I fully endorse her point about sport, although that seemed to go out the window with my son when he reached the age of 18.

Child Abuse: Police Investigations

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is fair to say that Project Spade—as it was called—was a very regrettable incident, to the extent that the NCA has actually referred itself to the IPCC. There was no excusing what went on there. In terms of who is prioritised, they are the people who proved the most harmful to children. That is how the priority is worked out.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Will the Minister work across government to ensure that the whole children’s workforce in all sectors are trained to recognise the early signs of child abuse so as to help the police by reducing the need for cases to come before them at all? That will protect children.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is a general duty of those working with children to safeguard them. Certainly every single officer who works in the NCA has a legal duty to safeguard and protect children.