Windrush Compensation Scheme

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Baroness for outlining the money that has been spent, which I could not do in answer to my noble friend—she has of course been right at the heart of this for some months now. As for spending money on Windrush compensation rather than on the projects and the monument the noble Baroness talks about, we are actually going to spend it on both. The scheme overall is not capped, although obviously certain elements of it are financially limited. She can be confident that we will fulfil our obligations in both areas.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Will the Minister tell the House what work the Government have done to identify other groups that may have very great difficulty presenting identification documents that establish their right to remain and live here? I think particularly of people born in children’s homes in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, who may have had a rather turbulent childhood and may not have access to documents that record their birth or adoption. I believe the numbers are not negligible.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness in what she says about Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. There will be people alive who do not even know where they came from, such was the chaotic system back in the 1950s, and until the 1970s, in both Northern Ireland and southern Ireland—in some cases children were sold abroad. Nobody could fail to be moved by the story of Philomena, who eventually identified who her son was after he died. The noble Baroness makes a very good point, and that is why we have the pre-1973 cohort and the pre-1988 cohort. The problems faced by the Windrush generation are not confined solely to people of the Windrush.

Brexit: Identity Cards

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The quite swingeing costs were certainly a consideration when the coalition Government decided to scrap identity cards or take them no further. I do not know about the £20 billion figure, but abolishing the scheme saved the taxpayer at the time £86 million and removed the need for a total investment of £835 million. What the Government choose to spend the money on will be a collective matter for the Government.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, this is not a question about identity but identification. Is it not quaint that we still have people who imagine that ID cards are a threat to civil liberties, who walk around with mobile phones, which constantly give away far more information than any ID card I have ever heard of? When will the Government recognise that being able to show who one is is seriously important, matters particularly for people who may not be entirely sure about their place of birth, and is necessary for people in Northern Ireland?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that I have just addressed the Northern Ireland point. However, I totally concur with the noble Baroness that with mobile phones and on forums people give away information about their personal identification that they would never dream of telling the state or their banks. That is why I pointed out the more serious development of online fraud and the importance of proving identity in a lot of different situations. Whether it is proving your age in a nightclub or proving the right to rent or work, they all need different solutions.

Immigration: Hostile Environment

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Thursday 14th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I will write the noble Lord on that when I write him on the specific case, if that is okay by him, because I am rapidly running out of time and I want to get through points that other noble Lords made.

The noble Lord, Lord Morris, talked about reduced numbers of staff. The work of the immigration system is vast, as noble Lords will appreciate. Every year, we make more than 3 million decisions on visas and have 250 million people crossing our borders. We are not complacent about this. The immigration system is constantly and continually improving, such as with ePassport gates.

The noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, made a very important point about identity assurance. I particularly draw to noble Lords’ attention, as she did, the issue of EU citizens when we leave the EU. That is why we have put in place measures to ensure a very clear process, so that what happened with Windrush will not in future years happen to EU citizens. So all EU citizens who are here lawfully when the UK exits the EU will have the opportunity to regularise their status to remain in the country by applying for settled status. On identity assurance, we have operated a new scheme for settled status from scratch. So the application system will be simplified, user-friendly, and it will draw on existing government data to minimise the burden on applicants.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

My Lords—

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I will run out of time; I am pretty much out of time.

[Baroness O’Neill of Bengarve]

Will the noble Baroness answer the Irish citizens’ question? It is quite different from that for EU citizens in general because of the common travel area legislation.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I shall write to the noble Baroness on that, as I know it is completely different.

On the point about limbo, asked by the noble Lord, Lord Jones—and before the clock gets to “21”—when an application is made during the period of extant leave, leave is extended by statute until the application is determined. Where the right to rent or work checks are required, the Home Office can confirm entitlement to an employer or a landlord.

I have run out of time. I am terribly sorry.

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 18th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I shall respond first to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. He is right to assert that Sir Brian Leveson will be consulted formally in due course in his role as the inquiry chair before any decision is taken. The noble Lord also made a point about the cost and other issues that have already been addressed. Lord Justice Leveson said:

“Before leaving the Ruling, I add one further comment … If the transparent way in which the Inquiry has been conducted, the Report and the response by government and the press (along with a new acceptable regulatory regime) addresses the public concern, at the conclusion of any trial or trials, consideration can be given by everyone to the value to be gained from a further inquiry into Part 2. That inquiry will involve yet more enormous cost (both to the public purse and the participants); it will trawl over material then more years out of date and is likely to take longer than the present Inquiry which has not over focussed on individual conduct”.


On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, about Parliament voting on part 2 of the inquiry, in fact Parliament did not vote on part 2; the inquiry was established by Ministers under the powers of the 2005 Act. Parliament voted on Section 40, but in this Motion we are talking not about Section 40, but about Leveson 2.

On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, about the Government already deciding to abandon part 2, as I hope I have explained, we have not made a decision on this; we want to take a view on it as part of the ongoing consultation. It is five years since the inquiry was established and since the scope of part 2 was set. We think a consultation is needed before a decision is made on whether proceeding with part 2 of the inquiry, on either its original or its amended terms of reference, is still in the public interest. In response to the point from the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, as I said, we will consult with Sir Brian Leveson formally in his role as the inquiry chair before any decision is taken.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply and other noble Lords who have helped illuminate the issue we recur to. The noble Lord, Lord Lester, is perhaps a little optimistic in imagining that IPSO is a model of self-regulation. Perhaps he meant to say a model of self-interested regulation. The point is that Leveson provides not regulation, but an audit of the standard of self-regulation. As we all know, IPSO has refused to have its process audited. Its so-called independent review of what it did was to terms of reference that it provided and funded by itself. Just as we think a free market requires companies that are—

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 30th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The consultation finishes on 10 January. In terms of anything going forward, we will of course be informed and guided by the consultation and I would not at this point wish to put a timescale on the inquiry.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

I thank the Minister for her reply. She suggests that we have yet to consider whether it is appropriate, proportionate or in the public interest to proceed with this amendment and that we should await the outcome of the consultation. That outcome is nicely timed to be rather too late for this legislation, where the proposed new clause fits very well. It has nothing to do with the commencement of Section 40 of the other legislation, so that one we can set aside. But this one is really a matter of honour for the Government. These were commitments made in public and there were real and identifiable victims, and while of course cost is an issue and the Government would perhaps wish to think about how to contain them, surely it is useful that some of the criminal cases that have been tried have actually done the work of finding out what happened in certain cases. The cost issue is not the same as it might have seemed in advance because some of that has already been sorted. I wish to test the opinion of the House.

Religion: Advertisements

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I have not seen the article. Perhaps we should put the advert in the context of where we are at the moment: the atrocious events that happened in Paris last week and the run-up to Christmas. If anyone looks at the advert, the context is very much thinking about the world and how we can make it a better place.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there is not and cannot be a right not to be offended? Offence is in the eye of the beholder, and the right to freedom of expression and the right to manifest religion or belief cannot be curtailed by a supposed right not to be offended.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right.

Devolution: England

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve

Wednesday 25th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

From the public, my Lords. We are moving to a more decentralised system within England through city deals and devolution deals. The devolution deals are confined not just to cities.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that by doing separate bits of devolution for the separate devolved nations we do not make progress towards retaining the United Kingdom, we risk its dissolution?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, this Question is around devolution in England rather than devolution to England and is confined purely to the local government aspect.