Prison Capacity

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord Timpson

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am well aware of the issues around indeterminate sentences for public protection. I know that matter is of great interest to noble Lords. It would not be appropriate to make changes in relation to IPP prisoners, because they are a different order of public protection risk. I am determined to make more progress on IPP prisoners. As I say, we will build on the work done by the previous Government. We worked constructively with the previous Administration on sensible changes that could be made in the safest possible way for the public. Those changes were on the licence period and the action plan, and we will crack on with that as a new Government. Any changes that we make to the regime for that type of sentence, which has rightly been abolished, must be done while balancing the public protection risk, which we would never take lightly.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his new role. I want to bring up the issue of Dartmoor prison; I live six miles from it and have been very involved with it for over 30 years. The significance is that 175 people will be moved within the next two weeks. Does that mean there will be only 525 male places available in England? How long will it take to reopen Dartmoor, if at all? If it is not to be reopened, what are we to do to ensure that the skills and expertise there are used elsewhere in the prison service? Because of the potential challenges to the local economy, can we seriously consider a new prison somewhere nearby?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, for her question. Interestingly, this week I have heard of Members of Parliament in the other place complaining about people wanting to build a new prison in their area, and then people also complaining that we are closing prisons in their area.

The circumstances at Dartmoor are exceptional and it is a very unfortunate situation that we are in. We spoke to the Prison Officers’ Association, which I met last week to discuss our plans to support the workforce there. It has been a very successful prison, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware; it has been very well run and has had very good outcomes. We need to make sure that we retain the talented staff who are there. I have also spoken to the local MP to assure him that we will inform him of everything we know as soon as it happens, and that we will maintain the prison while it is temporarily closed so it will be ready to be reopened if we can.