Immigration Bill

Debate between Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Thursday 3rd April 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, for his thoughtful contribution to the debate. I hope I can address the issues he has raised. We have had a good debate. We always have good debates on this subject. The House is not always in agreement with the Government’s position on issues, but I think we have come closer together as a result of the debate, the provisions of the Bill and the amendments that I have been able to bring forward today.

I do not want to sound boring, but I will reiterate the mantra that the Government’s objective is to attract the brightest and the best. There is no limit on numbers. We have to say that because it puts right at the top of the page what the Government’s policy is. We will go on, I hope, as we discuss this matter, and as I answer noble Lords’ questions, to demonstrate that the proposals in the Bill are not designed to dilute in any way that central policy.

We have had an interesting debate. I have had an interesting debate going on behind me between my noble friends Lord Hodgson and Lord Cormack. I know that they earnestly believe in the importance of the international student sector. I share that belief. It is a tribute to our education system and the talent of individual students who come here that we benefit enormously through our university sector. My noble friend Lady Williams of Crosby gave examples of outstanding academics who have benefited the world of knowledge and the world of medicine by their presence here in this country. They serve as exemplars of what our academic world is able to achieve. She has given me considerable detail which I am sure she will make available to other noble Lords should they wish to see it.

I turn to the Bill and to the amendments proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, and my own government amendments. In relation to tenancies, the Bill disqualifies individuals from renting property if they do not have leave to be here. Students will be able to evidence their immigration status simply by showing their biometric residence permits or visas to potential landlords. That is a simple and straightforward check. The Government have nonetheless given this issue further thought. As a result of our debates at Second Reading and in Committee, and as a result of meetings we have had outside this House, we have tabled amendments exempting student accommodation which is owned or managed by a higher education institution, all halls of residence, and any arrangement where the student has been nominated for the accommodation by their educational institution. I just want to emphasise that while the word “nominate” is something that those of us who have political lives associate with nomination papers and so on, nominating is just the naming of an individual as being a student at a higher education institution. That is all it is. It does not necessarily involve the university itself in any contract with the landlord or any renting arrangements that the student may be entering into. It is a form of vouching for the genuineness of the student’s immigration status. That is all. I hope that I have been able to express that in the plain terms that the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, asked for. I say further, and this is important too, that it applies to undergraduates— I think that would be understood—and also to postgraduates and to those completing their doctoral theses, so that all those who this House would consider to be students in the broadest definition of the term are included within this embrace.

The noble Lord raised three points that he wanted me to deal with. The first was the business of whether this extended to graduates. I have confirmed that that is indeed the case. Secondly, he asked whether this genuinely exempts the landlord. Yes, indeed; as long as he is satisfied by the nomination, then he has no need to conduct any further checks. If I may say so, this is rather analogous to the position of a person in a tied cottage. It has nothing to do with this part of the Bill but it is an interesting analogy in the sense that the person being employed can be vouched for and the landlord will have done the check on their employment in exactly the same way as the university will have done one on the engagement of the individual with the university itself. There is no contractual obligation on the university in respect of the tenancy that the individual student may be entering into. It is important to emphasise that as well. There is engagement, of course, but there is no contractual obligation.

Where a landlord wishes to rent to a student and does not want to check their immigration status documents, for whatever reason, they may make inquiries with the student’s educational institution and obtain this nomination. Nomination will be simply a confirmation of the student’s status, something that educational institutions already have to provide to students in order to prove exemption from the council tax. A suggestion made by my noble friend Lady Manzoor led us to explore this possibility. The term “nominate” is a broad exemption and it will allow higher education institutions to confirm that the student is exempt without being prescriptive about the form that this should take.

These government amendments will mean that landlords need not conduct an immigration status check as the educational institution will already have done so. The amendment removes the large majority of students from the scope of the landlords scheme. I also reassure noble Lords that the Government intend to make provision within the code of practice to allow landlords to agree a tenancy in principle with the students who have not yet arrived in the UK, allowing them to undertake a check of relevant documentation immediately before the student takes up occupation. In other words, it is possible for these arrangements to be made in advance of the student actually taking up their place at the university. A number of noble Lords had expressed concern on that point.

Perhaps I may park the landlord provisions and go on to talk about the health service surcharge—

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe]

Before the noble Lord does that, might I clarify whether what he is saying is in response to the point I made about a potential tenant entering into a conditional arrangement with a landlord? Is it legal and proper for the landlord to enter into that arrangement even though at that point, because of the time involved and so on, the potential tenant has not actually got their visa?

Global Migration and Mobility (EUC Report)

Debate between Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Thursday 6th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach)]

My Lords, this has been an interesting afternoon—indeed, evening—spent in discussing a high-quality report. It forms another chapter in this House’s dialogue with the Government on migration policy, and if most of the paragraphs have been on international students, so be it. My honourable friend Mark Harper has been dealing with a debate on this subject in another place today. The Government are very aware of the points being made by noble Lords on the subject.

I will begin by congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, both on the report and on getting the debate today. As I said, it is a high-quality report, and I congratulate all those noble Lords who participated in its production. I thank all noble Lords for the strong contributions made in today’s debates. I have spoken to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, about this, and I will, if I may, do as I did in the previous debate and give a commentary on the debate, taking points made by noble Lords and giving a proper answer. It is very difficult at the end of a debate like this to give proper consideration of all the points made. Of course, in cases where I do not have the information that noble Lords would want, I will make sure that an answer is sent to all noble Lords who participated, and a copy put in the Library. I hope that this will enable me to concentrate my words in the main on the report and on the reasons we welcome it.

There were some key insights in our debate. One important one came from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby, who showed us the consequences of this policy on local communities. It is one of those important aspects that we have to bear in mind when we discuss systems and processes: that at the end of the day, policy impacts on people and on communities. It was good to hear not only of the work that is being done in his diocese but of the way in which he is aware, and has made us aware, of the problems that can arise.

I was pleased that my noble friend Lady Hamwee was able to give us a promotional trailer for her forthcoming report. I look forward to having a debate on family unification policy. It will be very helpful. Our noble friend Lord Teverson pointed to the importance of the issue.

One of the most interesting speeches came, rather out of the blue, from my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts. We have to accept that we have a consensus. We are all badged with different political beliefs and party allegiances, but I felt that my noble friend’s speech was sobering. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, referred to it as a challenging speech. It made us realise that there is no room for complacency in this area, that our policies have to be addressed to the real anxieties of our fellow citizens, and that we have to draft policy with that in mind.

I turn to the report. The EU’s renewed Global Approach to Migration and Mobility, which was the principal focus of the inquiry, was published in 2011. It provided a welcome renewal of the EU’s external migration policy framework, which was established in 2005 under the UK presidency. As my noble friend Lord Sharkey made clear, the Government welcomed many of the proposals set out in the Commission’s communication on the GAMM, including the incorporation of international protection, alongside existing priorities, in order to broaden the geographical coverage of the global approach. The intention is to ensure a more strategic and coherent approach, to work with third-party countries in the area of migration, and to enhance links to wider development and foreign policy efforts. Alongside other member states, we agreed the Council’s conclusions on the renewed global approach in May 2012.

Unlike the EU’s more general approach to migration policy, which perhaps has placed too much emphasis on legislation and on a common approach—some noble Lords supported that approach today, but it is not the Government’s position—the GAMM is centred on a framework for practical co-operation between the EU’s member states and third countries. The Government particularly welcome this focus on practical co-operation; the pragmatic approach is perhaps part of our political tradition. Alongside the GAMM’s non-binding and voluntary character is an approach that allows member states to decide how they can best contribute to joint initiatives in this area, in their own national interests and in those of the EU as a whole.

Following the Council’s agreement, this flexible, practically-oriented approach has allowed the UK to explore possibilities for working with our EU and third-country partners under the renewed GAMM, assessing whether and how we will participate in line with the UK’s broader immigration policy. The national interest is at the heart of this decision-making process and, alongside our migration objectives, the Home Office works closely with other government departments, in particular the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and DfID, to ensure that wider home affairs, security, foreign policy and development implications are given due weight in deciding when and where to participate in GAMM initiatives. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, emphasised that the responsibility for these initiatives is not just for the Home Office but is pan-government. Indeed, noble Lords have pointed to the implications of immigration policy for a number of other aspects of government policy.

Given the range of factors involved and the specific considerations with regard to any given country or region, we make these decisions on a case-by-case basis, albeit that our decisions are informed by a set of overarching principles and principally by the Government’s objectives with regard to controlling migration. Following such considerations, we have announced our intention to take part in a number of new initiatives under the GAMM. For example, the Home Secretary will tomorrow join her counterparts from a number of EU member states in signing a new EU mobility partnership with Morocco. The flexibility afforded by the GAMM has allowed us to offer to work with Morocco in the area of border management, where we feel we have useful experience to share, rather than needing to participate across the whole of the proposed partnership. This includes areas such as legal migration or the portability of social security benefits, where other EU partners are better placed to lead, or where proposed initiatives would not be in line with our national policy.

Indeed, the UK has remained a leading voice in the development and implementation of the renewed global approach. We have played a leading role in the development of the new Silk Routes Partnership, identified in the Council conclusions on the GAMM as a key strategic requirement in the EU’s work with key countries of transit and origin. At April’s ministerial conference in Istanbul, which launched the Silk Routes Partnership, my colleague the Minister of State for Immigration, Mark Harper, announced the UK’s financing of a bridging project for the new partnership, ensuring that momentum will be maintained on concrete, practically-oriented initiatives in the silk routes countries ahead of the commencement of EU funding for these projects in 2014.

However, it will not always be in the UK’s interests or, given limited resources, within our abilities, to participate in GAMM initiatives. Therefore, while we continue to maintain good working relationships with other member states and the EU institutions in this area, and while we welcome the increased capacity and added leverage provided by working alongside our EU partners, the Government will always consider whether it might be more appropriate, or more effective, to work bilaterally with third countries. For example, the Government’s policy is not to opt in automatically to EU readmission agreements, which are increasingly linked to mobility partnerships and other negotiations under the GAMM. Rather, we will weigh up the benefits of participation in each agreement, including an assessment of the impact of such decisions on wider bilateral relationships, exercising our opt-in where we believe participation will benefit the UK, or where the UK’s participation will strengthen the readmission agreement overall. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that these decisions are carefully considered. This is consistent with the UK’s case-by-case approach to the application of our JHA opt-in. We believe that this is right. The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, mentioned this issue, as did the noble Lord, Lord Teverson.

We believe that it is right to consider our relationship on a case-by-case basis. We make very few enforced returns to either Belarus or Armenia and we are happy with our existing bilateral arrangements with those two countries. That is why we are not participating collectively in that agreement.

We will have an opportunity to talk about family reunification, and my noble friend Lady Hamwee has clearly worked hard at producing her report, which will be a subject for debate. The UK did not opt into the directive because we wanted the ability to set our own family migration policy. The UK is concerned about the potential for abuse of the right to family reunification, in particular by third-country nationals. In view of that, we maintain the view that it is not in the UK’s interest to be part of the directive.

I can assure my noble friend Lord Phillips of Sudbury, who talked about the need to make sense of regulations in this area and make the procedures as straightforward as possible, that I am the Minister for Deregulation within the Home Office and I have an extremely good and productive relationship with Mark Harper, the Minister for Immigration. We are working as one to make sure that the immigration Bill, which will be presented later in this Session of Parliament, contains measures that will make this area much more straightforward.

The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, rightly reminded us of another subject, the contribution of migrant medical professions to the healthcare of this country. He was right to mention the debt that we owe to migrants in this country, to which a number of noble Lords alluded. That is why we do not have closed borders. We have not turned our back on the talent of the world, nor do we want to cut ourselves off from the ability to share our talent through soft diplomacy throughout the world.

Perhaps the whole debate has been dominated by international students. Scarcely a noble Lord has failed to mention them in some way or another. That board at Gatwick stating, “Welcome international students”, summed up the Government’s policy. The noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, is shaking her head. Noble Lords have asked for reassurance on what the government policy is. I am giving that policy. There is no limit on numbers. We want to work in partnership with the universities of this country to build our student population.

The whole issue of where the statistics lie is, to my mind, a red herring. The task is not about the compilation of statistics or even their interpretation. What matters is the partnership between the Government and the universities themselves, and going out there in an increasingly competitive world to get the students from which this country can prosper here to our universities. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, was honest on this point. He turned the argument towards the universities to make them aware of the need to take a positive role in this. It is not enough to wait for students to arrive. If I may say so, I sometimes wonder how much the negative talk on this issue by universities has become self-fulfilling. I wonder about the extent to which the campaign to get these statistics removed, the use of the association of student numbers as part of the immigration policy of this country, and the suggestion that the Government are seeking to reduce those numbers and that that is part of our migration policy are all false. I think that in many cases those things have added to the impression that this Government do not take a positive view of university students.

I know that Mark Harper’s commitment is genuine, and it was repeated today in the House of Commons. I share his enthusiasm for advocating international students as being of enormous importance to our universities. Yesterday, I went to a celebration in the Speaker’s residence, where it was announced that 11 new universities have been recognised by this Government. We have a valuable—if I may say so, it is incapable of being valued sufficiently—resource in our universities, and I think that we make a mistake in arguing that the way we are presenting our statistics is the reason that people are not coming to this country.

Noble Lords will know that we have a commitment to present our statistics in a consistent fashion. David Willetts has made it quite clear that student numbers are disaggregated from the net migration figures. The figures are available. We are all aware of the student numbers—we can all calculate the figures for ourselves. However, in terms of public presentation—and, if I may say so, in terms of resource allocation within this country—we need to recognise that students, as migrant numbers, in communities need resources. They need adequate provision in public services and in financial resourcing.

The possibility of the presentation of these numbers being changed has been discussed in government but I cannot offer any comfort on that. I think that we need to change the tone of the argument to one which makes it clear that this Government have no limit on numbers and that they welcome international students, and they want the universities of this country to make that absolutely clear throughout the world.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe]

Perhaps I may interrupt briefly not on a question of statistics but on another point raised by several noble Lords concerning the Brazilian high-achieving language students who were told that they would have to leave this country in order to get another visa to study in the UK. Will the Minister comment on that?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

When that point was being made, my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire was sitting next to me and he said, “My son is studying in the States and he has just had to come back to the UK to renew his visa to go back to the States for a second course there”. If I may say so, that is not unusual. However, I have a note here on the Brazilian students. I am very conscious of the hour but am very happy to reply in detail. The noble Baroness has been sitting in her place and I have been very conscious of her position, but it is perhaps a pity that she was not able to participate in the debate. I am pleased that she has come in at this late hour and I will include her in the circulation of the commentary that I make on this debate.

In conclusion, this has been a worthwhile debate but it is no use for me, as a Minister, to say things to noble Lords about how the Government are going to present immigration statistics which I cannot then follow up. I can say that international student numbers will indeed be disaggregated in the presentation of those figures. More importantly, let us turn what we know we all want to do into positive action—selling our universities around the world. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, for bringing this debate to us.

Visas: Student Visa Policy

Debate between Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Thursday 31st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

That is not the experience. All the figures seem to show that graduate engagement post-PhD is an increasing area. Indeed, we are doing as much as we can to encourage it through our graduate entrepreneur scheme, as I said, for talented MBA graduates to stay to build businesses in this country. I hope that reassures the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Wilson, who was concerned about this.

The Government want to send a positive message—not, if the noble Baroness will forgive me for saying so, a negative one—about the prospect of graduate engagement post-degree in this country. The sector needs to take on the responsibility for promoting a positive message. We want to work with universities to protect not just the integrity of the immigration system but the reputation of the British education system around the world, just as my noble friend Lord Lucas said. He made a thoughtful speech and I am happy to organise a meeting for him.

The Government will continue to monitor strictly the adherence of universities as well as colleges to our rules and the UK Border Agency will work with universities on a system of co-regulation to make sure that we enforce student sponsorship obligations and protect the interests of legitimate students. UKBA has had some unreasonable criticism. It is surely right to ensure that we maintain a generous but proper regime for managing these matters. The Border Agency’s decision to revoke London Met’s sponsor licence was the right one. The agency worked with the university over several months to rectify the issues found. The Government took action to protect legitimate students and allow them to keep studying.

It does not serve the reputation of British education to ignore failings of this kind. As we are reducing student visas by tackling abuse, the number of successful applicants to study at British universities is up. This success means we can look forward to a period of stability on student migration policy. That stability will help the Government and universities to give a clear message that the UK has a great offer to international students and that genuine students are welcome here. This offer supports what should be the main attraction for international students—not visa conditions or rights to work but the quality of the education that is to be found in our country.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe]

Before the Minister sits down, will he answer the specific question about the Government’s targets? Students form the vast majority of migrants coming to this country. The Migration Observatory has estimated that to meet the Government’s target the Government would have to reduce student visa numbers by 87,000. Can the Minister assure us, in assuring us about there being no cap on international students, that the target can be met without reducing by that number?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I will answer the noble Baroness but not today. I am well over my time and I think it is proper that I allow the other debates following this to take place.