Higher Education
Debate between Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, first, I thank each and every Member of your Lordships’ House who has taken part in this debate. Indeed, reflecting on the words of my noble friend Lady Sharp, I, too, was surprised when looking into this to find that it had been so long since your Lordships’ House had debated such an important subject. It was the Government’s view that it was something that we should put on the agenda, and I am glad that we have done so.
In paying tribute to all noble Lords, it would be entirely apt for me to pay particular tribute to the maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth. In his remarks, he said that he was not sure about how his opening contribution would be taken by the House. It was an excellent one, and I am sure that he will play a significant role not just in representing the people in Portsmouth and wider Hampshire but indeed the country as a whole, albeit that at times he may cause a degree of discomfort to those of us on the Front Bench with the questions that he may ask. We look forward to his future contributions and welcome him to the House.
The noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, referred to poets and plumbers. I do not know what I shall be called by the time I sit down, but certainly if one was to look to my plumbing skills—my wife is testament to that—a plumber I am not.
This is an important subject. As we have heard from all noble Lords, higher education is an important part of what defines Britain today. It is key to the nation’s success and, as last week’s Universities UK report on the impact of universities on the UK economy noted, the sector generates jobs—indeed, 754,000—and contributes to the GDP, some 2.8% in 2011, up from 2.3% in 2007. The report also reveals that the UK higher education sector contributed an output of over £73 billion. The almost £5 billion that students contribute to local economies through their off-campus expenditure shows that the impact of higher education is felt in businesses across the country. These figures remind us that universities are absolutely pivotal to driving the growth that will safeguard a more sustainable future for everyone.
My noble friend Lord Purvis referred to university funding. University income across the whole of the UK represents £29 billion in 2012-13, as opposed to £12 billion in 1999 to 2000. Again, that demonstrates the flexibility and autonomy to which several noble Lords alluded for our universities. Education is of vital importance to the nation as a whole.
I shall take certain areas in a specific order. Several noble Lords raised the issue of social mobility. Right from the outset, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, that, although he said that his background was not one of university education, I have stood across the Chamber from him at this Dispatch Box and talked about apprenticeships. The Government recognise the importance of apprenticeships for the future growth of our economy, which is why we have created the number of apprenticeships that we have. I am sure that he will recognise that various companies are coming on board—I accept that we start from a low base—that are now participating in the apprenticeship programme. I believe that we all share the sentiment that diversity, not just in terms of the university route but in terms of the apprenticeship route, is vital for our continued growth.
The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, spoke about social mobility from her great experience. Institutions now have a much greater responsibility to focus on widening access. The Director of Fair Access has agreed more than 160 access agreements with institutions for 2014-15. These detail the plans by universities and colleges to spend more than £700 million by 2017-18—up from £440 million in 2011-12. The Government will invest another £50 million through the National Scholarship Programme in 2014-15.
Access issues were also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rees. It is important to note that in all these access agreements we are looking at issues of gender, social class and ethnicity. The director has certainly reflected these issues in the access agreements. However, I am sure all noble Lords agree that we need to make sure that all this money is spent where it really counts. Just last week, the Government announced a new national strategy for widening access, led by the HEFCE and OFFA. One of the key focuses of this strategy will be the employment prospects of graduates from less advantaged backgrounds. Research published last year by our Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission showed that, three years after graduation, individuals from higher socioeconomic backgrounds were more likely to be in a high-status occupation than those from less privileged backgrounds. OFFA is also asking all universities, especially those which have not yet made progress, to invest more smartly in their access activities generally and ensure that they are properly evaluating what works, and then sharing that best practice with other institutions.
The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, raised the issue of diverse universities, as did my noble friend Lady Sharp. My noble friend Lady Perry gave examples of the universities with which she has been associated—namely, Cambridge and London South Bank. The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, rightly values a diverse system, as we all do. Of course, university rankings are not a government tool per se, and there are many different measures of a good university. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, highlighted a particular example of how ratings can be used. One of the reasons the Government have focused on improving student information is so that students can use their purchasing power to seek out the best course to match their aspirations—indeed, the best institution as well. Popular institutions will grow and attract more income, and this is reflected in how they are perceived.
My noble friend Lord Storey rightly wants to encourage more women to take up leadership roles. The Government are committed to supporting this aspiration. The universities are, of course, autonomous institutions and the Government do not have a specific role in micromanaging this sector. However, I believe that all universities increasingly recognise the importance of reflecting diversity in their own leadership.
The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, raised the issue of part-time students. The Government have addressed what we considered was the primary barrier to part-time study—that is, access to tuition fee loans. We recently announced that we are examining the rules regarding equivalent or lower qualifications which rule out loans for past graduates, so that those wishing to undertake engineering, technology or computer science courses can do so.
The noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, referred to teacher training. The Government are carefully considering the implications of our policy on the quality of teacher training. The expansion of School Direct, to which she referred, has been challenging for many universities, but there is scope for successful school and higher education collaboration in this regard. Outstanding university providers have been guaranteed the same number of places as last year, and many have increased their share of the initial teacher training market. I understand that the higher education institutions remain involved in more than 80% of the initial training places. Additional places have been created to reduce the chance that some courses may have to close.
Several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, referred to the loan system. We are absolutely not seeking to treat the student loan system like a private debt system. The system operates very much like a graduate contribution scheme, and we feel that it takes the best features of a graduate tax. Students repay only when they can afford and at only 9% of income earned above the £21,000 threshold. As I said in my opening remarks, the OECD recognises that what we are seeking to do through our reforms puts our higher education funding on a sustainable model basis.
I turn to the funding and RAB charge, referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lord, Lord Giddens. There has been much discussion of the Government’s estimate of the returns that they will get from student loans. However, the resource accounting and budgeting process—the RAB charge—is not a straightforward financial calculation, as noble Lords will know. It is an estimate of the economic circumstances 35 years in the future. The Government have improved the modelling. It is sound and has been quality-assured by experts in the field, such as the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
We have taken careful note of the recommendations in the 2013 National Audit Office report on student loan repayments. It is not surprising that the Government’s assessment of the proportion of loans that will be repaid has changed. After all, it is a complex analysis. Estimates are just that and they will continue to change, as they are based on assumptions about the future. However, it is important to note that lower-earning graduates will be protected, while those who benefit most from their higher education and go on to earn more will pay back their loan more quickly.
The Government are still delivering a tough deficit reduction programme. The funding model that they have used has made it possible to address the deficit, while, as I indicated, at the same time giving more income to higher education institutions to boost the quality of their provision. The Government are working with an estimate of around 45%. It could be argued that currently the savings are small but, depending on the performance of the economy—and we are encouraged by the IMF’s report published yesterday—this could change over time. However, there continue to be savings to government compared with the previous assessment, even if we take the figure of 45%. We believe that this system continues to be the best way to use limited public funds to meet the country’s requirement for long-term, high-level skills, but we must not forget what it ultimately means for students: a progressive repayment system, better information and higher-quality provision.
I turn to the STEM subjects, specifically science and research. I acknowledge the contribution of various noble Lords in this respect. Science and research, including the arts and humanities, are essential drivers of the innovation that leads to growth. The base funding awards that are made to support vital research will be distributed using the outcomes of the research excellence framework. The peer review is currently the most established method of research assessment and it underpins the academic system. Obviously, we can shape cultures both positively and negatively depending on how we measure things. The latest exercise contained, for the first time, an explicit assessment of the impact of research. There were some concerns about what that impact might mean in the UK, but it has sent a powerful reminder to researchers to think about how their research might be used or the difference that it might make, and it is encouraging much greater engagement with the industry.
Perhaps I may take some of the specific questions that were asked on research and development, including by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester. The UK’s overall research and development spend was 1.72% of GDP in 2012, amounting to £27 billion. I acknowledge that this sum is lower than that of some of our trading partners such as the US, Germany and France. We continue to look to invest more and, as I said in my opening remarks, we have protected funding in this area.
Several noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Greenfield, and my noble friend Lord Storey, raised the important issue of technology transfer and asked what universities are for. It is important to note that the UK does very much better than people think. The impact of the research excellence framework is a key incentive in driving this. The excellent HEIF programme is widely recognised as supporting technology transfer. Indeed, we are in the top five globally for university/business interactions. One of the drivers behind removing the cap as an incentive is that this is demand-led: the private sector wants to see more graduates and, increasingly, there is a strong link with what universities provide in the communities. My noble friend Lord Storey gave examples in Liverpool, which the Government fully endorse and support.
The noble Lord, Lord Rees, and others talked about credit accumulation and transfer. Much has been done in this area. Many institutions allow students to build a qualification from smaller modules but the decision to accept and recognise credit has always been one for the universities, which act autonomously in this regard. Mention was made of the need for academic freedom by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern. Others talked about value and gave examples, as my noble friend Lady Perry did, when she spoke of the value of freedom of the universities. The Government are fully committed to the Haldane principles, whereby decisions on which research projects are funded are made by the research councils themselves, not by Ministers. Around two-thirds of all research council grants are made through this measure—that is, not responding to any government priority.
Mention was also made by my noble and learned friend, and the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, I believe, of where higher education should sit. Should it be in BIS or in Education? I have noted the comments, as I have noted the wider debate, and will take those suggestions back.
The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, raised modern languages.
Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe
I wonder whether I may refer back to the noble Lord’s support for HEIF to ask the specific question that I asked in my intervention. Do the Government see it as important to accept the Whitty recommendation to increase that fund?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
If I may I will write to the noble Baroness in that regard, and, of course, share it with all those who have taken part in the debate.
The Government are committed to the teaching and learning of modern languages in schools. As the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, acknowledged, from September 2014, primary schools will be required to teach a foreign language at key stage 2. Thanks to the English baccalaureate, modern languages GCSE entries are improving. The Government have prioritised higher education funding for modern language courses to ensure the continued availability of language study in higher education institutions. The noble Baroness raised some other questions, but with her permission, and in the interests of time—at five hours, this has been somewhat of a marathon—I will write to her and share that letter with other noble Lords.
The explosive growth in massive open online courses was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Giddens and Lord Rees, among others, and by my noble friend Lady Sharp. We have seen growth in this area and the UK’s new MOOC platform FutureLearn brings together free courses from 23 top UK and international universities. In the four months since the first course began, FutureLearn has already 450,000 sign-ups. Users come from an impressive 90 countries and a range of backgrounds.
My noble friend Lord Holmes mentioned the BPP. The BPP is the third university to achieve the university title last year and it is respected for its professionally geared education. My noble friend flagged that particularly in his comments. Various issues were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester, the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, among others, and my noble friend Lord Holmes. I underline that on specific questions I shall write to noble Lords, in the interests of time. I reiterate that the Government are fully committed to international students and we have announced that we will extend options for people to stay on following their study. I will write with the details. Just to be clear, the numbers of international students are not capped. I can do nothing better than quote my right honourable friend the Prime Minister when he visited India last year and said that we were open for anyone wishing to come to the UK for a legitimate course at an accredited university. The doors are open. As I said, I will write with further details.
I fully acknowledge the points made by my noble friends Lord Watson and Lady Sharp, and the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, about the importance of soft power when we travel the world. Indeed, my noble friend Lady Bottomley spoke about this with great passion. English itself is an incredibly powerful tool in ensuring that the issue of soft power both at home and abroad is not forgotten. I totally ally myself with the comments made on that point.
My noble friend Lord Addington raised issues about the disabled students’ allowance, specifically on dyslexia. These changes will not come into effect until 2015 and we are working through the sector-driven centres to consider specific individual needs and to inform higher education institutes how we expect them to offer support in this regard.
My noble friend Lord Norton of Louth, spoke with great expertise in this area, as ever. I particularly commend and welcome his commission’s report on the future regulation of the university sector. Again, perhaps I may write to him in respect of the specific questions he raised.
In conclusion, we have had five hours of debate and even Lord Robbins, if he was here and reflected on the words of the debate, would say that it has perhaps been a useful consultation exercise in its own right. I can assure noble Lords that I have been listening. The noble Lord, Lord Young, made the point about the range of speakers. I have been riveted to my Front Bench seat during this extremely informed debate.
Our universities are one of our greatest national assets. UK universities are second in international rankings only to the US. They contribute to the nation’s wealth and to the rich cultural fabric of our society. The thousands of extra higher education places that the Chancellor announced at the end of last year will help the nation to grow and flourish.
Again I thank all noble Lords who have participated in the debate. Their thoughts, perspectives and suggestions have provided a valuable resource as we seek to further strengthen our world-renowned higher education sector—a sector which is central not only to our economic growth but to our position on the global stage. As a Minister responding to such a debate it is appropriate for me to finish with a quote from Aristotle. He said:
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”.
EU Report: Effectiveness of EU Research and Innovation Proposals
Debate between Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, it has been a stimulating debate. We have travelled far and wide—to Kuala Lumpur, Singapore and China—and I will cover most if not all of the questions in my response. Before I go further, it would be remiss of me if I did not pay tribute to the excellent introduction to this debate provided by the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, and congratulate him on his recent appointment as UK business ambassador for health and life sciences—which, again, underlines and illustrates what we hope is the continuing promotion of British and European interests abroad. It is also appropriate for me to pay tribute to the chairmanship of my noble friend Lady O’Cathain. What I am sure would have been her forthright and robust contributions to today’s debate have been missed. I am also always mindful of the fact that while our debates on Europe may take place under various watchful eyes, they are under the watchful eye, too, of the chairman of the EU Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, who remains my noble friend. I join other noble Lords in thanking the members of the committee for their excellent report and the comprehensive way in which they have dealt with a variety of issues which I shall seek to address.
The report examined in great detail the issues surrounding the EU’s major funding programmes for research, development and innovation and made a number of important recommendations. As several noble Lords have pointed out, the Government have responded and we have had various exchanges in this regard.
The report is aimed at ensuring that these programmes, which will be responsible for spending some €70 billion over the next seven years, from 2014 to 2020, are as effective as they can be. Many of the recommendations were addressed to the European Commission and, like all noble Lords who have spoken today, the Government look forward to seeing its response in the near future.
On the UK’s track record of participation in EU research programmes, one point which emerged clearly from the report was the major opportunity that the EU’s existing and future funding programmes have offered, and will continue to offer, to UK researchers and research institutions. The UK is already a very strong player in the EU’s current framework programme, FP7. It receives, as several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, pointed out, 15.4% of the total funding available, which puts us second only to Germany among our European partners. The UK also participates in more successful projects than any other country: 41.2 % of all grant agreements in FP7 to date include at least one UK partner. Research-intensive UK universities have been particularly successful in this regard and are actively engaged in Europe. Several universities—Birmingham, for instance—have Brussels offices and now derive a substantial proportion of their external research income from EU sources. The value of presence on the ground was a point made by several noble Lords and our universities are certainly taking this forward.
The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, in his excellent contribution, stressed the importance of the assessment of programmes and their delivery. In this regard, I want to highlight to your Lordships’ House several notable success stories. For example, the Nobel prize-winning work undertaken at Manchester on graphene, an ultra-thin, ultra-light and superconductive material with potential uses ranging from energy storage and high-speed computing to improved tennis racquets, was partly EU-funded. Jaguar and Rolls-Royce are collaborating with Queen Mary College and innovative UK SMEs in a project aimed at turning waste heat from engine exhaust gases into electricity, meaning reduced carbon dioxide emissions and better fuel consumption. ARM Ltd has successfully participated in a series of EU research projects which have helped underpin its global leadership in providing microchip designs for a broad range of digital technologies. I say to my noble friend Lord Maclennan that the Jaguar and Rolls-Royce example underlines issues and challenges that we are looking at in terms of environment.
On the quality of the UK research base, the UK does well because of the excellence of the research conducted here. An indicator of this strength is provided by the distribution of grants by the European Research Council, which funds groundbreaking research on the basis of Europe-wide peer review. Among all the ERC grant-holders, the UK ranks well ahead of both Germany and France. This quality provides a firm basis on which to build even stronger engagement in the future. I agree wholeheartedly with the praise of the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, for the European Research Council, which plays an important role in all these EU research programmes, and from which, as I have already illustrated, the UK has done well.
The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, and others referred to Horizon 2020. The process of negotiating the new seven-year Horizon 2020 programme has been long and complex but the political agreement that was reached between the Council and the European Parliament represents, in the Government’s view, a good deal for Britain. It retains the primacy of excellence as the factor for deciding who receives funding. I know that we have discussed this issue but I assure my noble friend Lord Jenkin that excellence is the key determining factor in this regard. The programme is structured round a limited number of key societal challenges such as health, climate change and energy security. It also provides a range of support right along the innovation chain, from blue sky research through to large-scale demonstrators of new technologies. It seeks to embed and mainstream the insights from research in the social sciences and the arts and humanities—I know that was a concern of the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick—another area of UK strength across the programme, as she rightly pointed out. It will allocate increased levels of dedicated funding to innovative small and medium-sized enterprises. I agree with the important point that the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, raised about applying a much broader interpretation of research and innovation. Horizon 2020 will make provision for other areas of support and for new business models.
The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, and others referred to red tape. One of the key challenges and issues for the implementation of the programme remains that of reducing red tape and administrative overheads. We should not look at this just in a European context. As someone who spent many years in the private sector before joining your Lordships’ House—indeed, during my time on the Conservative Back Benches I continued in business—I know that red tape is not just an issue that government must tackle but one with which many businesses across the board have to grapple. The rules that set the conditions for participation in the Horizon 2020 programme contain welcome simplifications, which is something for which we have pushed. The Government will monitor in particular the European Commission’s performance in delivering on its commitment to reduce the time taken over funding decisions by 100 days. My noble friend Lord Liverpool pointed out that it is all very well securing the funding but asked what is the point of bidding for it if, by the time it arrives, the business has closed. That is a very important point on which to reflect.
As regards Horizon 2020 funding, within a smaller overall multiannual financial framework for 2014-20, spending on research and innovation is one of the few areas to increase. This is in recognition of the potential for spending in this area to contribute to sustainable growth and jobs and add real value to the investments made at national level: a point underlined at the European Council meeting last month.
I turn to business participation. As several noble Lords have pointed out, in looking at UK participation in EU funding programmes, I have thus far focused on the performance of our UK universities. I am aware that UK business participation in the framework programme has not always been as strong as we would have liked. There are several reasons for this. I have already referred to the levels of bureaucracy and red tape associated with EU funding. I assure all noble Lords that we shall work with the Commission to address this in Horizon 2020. Indeed, the committee’s report specifically highlighted this as a major concern.
The Government also need to enhance their support to potential participants. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Technology Strategy Board have therefore been working on the implementation of new national support services for Horizon 2020. A new TSB-hosted website and helpline service will be ready in time for the launch of the first competitions for grants in December. I turn to some specific questions in this regard. The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, referred to the key role of SMEs. The Technology Strategy Board has a key role to play through the national contact points system in prompting opportunities for SMEs. It is welcome that funding will be allocated on the basis of excellence, as I have already mentioned. For the first time, individual SMEs will be able to receive funding, so they will no longer be required to find out about partner organisations. This, we feel, should help participation and make it easier for SMEs to participate themselves.
The noble Lord, Lord Young, also raised the issue of the national contact points. Full-time employees of the Technology Strategy Board will be better integrated with the technology innovation structures, the knowledge transfer network and the Enterprise Europe Network to provide a better co-ordinated service. He also raised the important point about the role of local enterprise partnerships. The TSB is in the process of developing relationships with the LEPs, including a focus on their innovation agenda. This includes drawing attention to the opportunities available for EU funding, notably via the structural funds.
The TSB’s recruitment of the new Horizon 2020 national contact points is under way. The TSB is also actively looking to establish a presence in Brussels early in 2014 that will further help to improve the support it provides in increasing business access to Horizon 2020 programmes. Furthermore, we are working to strengthen communications strategies to ensure that information about Horizon 2020 and the opportunities which it offers is available to all those who might have an interest in participating. I fully take on board the important point made by several noble Lords about having presence on the ground. Again, I underline the Government’s commitment to encouraging that. When I was discussing this debate with officials, I raised the obvious point that while it is all very well having the funding, if you do not know about it then it is a difficult chore. Therefore, the communication strategy that the Government are seeking to put behind this will, we hope, also encourage wider and greater participation, especially at the SME level.
Several noble Lords also mentioned the barriers to innovation. It is essential that European funding programmes for research and innovation foster the emergence of new industry sectors and jobs. The committee’s excellent report rightly drew attention to issues that affect the exploitation of the outputs and outcomes of the projects funded. One such was the EU regulatory environment. For instance, there is little point in working on disruptive technologies if the regulatory framework or regime favours existing technologies. More generally, there are concerns about EU regulations or differences of approach between EU countries which make it excessively difficult, at times, for business to bring innovative products to the market. The noble Lord, Lord Haskel, spoke about the importance of the demand side in innovation, particularly in public procurement. I am glad to report that Horizon 2020 will in fact introduce a new SME instrument aimed at pulling innovations through into the market place.
I turn to promoting innovation-friendly regulation. My right honourable friend the Minister for Universities and Science has been actively promoting a more innovation-friendly regulatory environment in Europe, working with key partner countries. We are now seeking to build on this momentum and to provide and promote a greater role and higher profile for scientific advice in policy and decision-making, drawing on the expertise of the chief scientific adviser to the EU and the Commission’s in-house joint research centre.
We have heard a lot about what some noble Lords suggested was the diminishing influence of Britain in Europe. I do not agree with that point. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, pointed out, it is notable that the Commission’s chief scientific adviser, Professor Anne Glover, is indeed British. I use that word deliberately. She may be Scottish but she is British as well, and long may that be the case.
The noble Lords, Lord Brooke and Lord Hunt, raised the issue of representation on the ground in the EU. I must point out that in this policy area, notwithstanding how many British representatives we have at the moment, one of the important things to realise about Europe is that while officials there are of course promoting national interests, there are also the wider interests of Europe. We certainly take the view that we must establish good working relationships with all Commission officials. The only thing I would point out in support of this point, which was also well made by my noble friend Lord Maclennan, is that the success of our relationship is perhaps underlined by the fact that Her Majesty’s Government have secured many of our key negotiating objectives within Horizon 2020.
I shall deal with a small point as an aside. The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, and my noble friend Lord Liverpool raised the issue of the actual funding amount. Because this was preset, the actual funding remains and is then adjusted, so the figure of €79 billion that we are hearing being quoted has been adjusted for inflation. It is important to point out that distinction.
I turn to the launch of Horizon 2020. The package is now largely agreed and waiting for formal adoption at the end of this year. Officials are working closely on this point. Indeed, in a “hot off the press” moment, I was informed as I was coming in to the debate that only this morning the European Parliament agreed in its plenary session in favour of the Horizon 2020 package. This will now pass to the Council of Ministers and we are currently awaiting the date of that meeting. We will continue to work with all UK stakeholders and our partner countries in preparing the ground for the formal launch of the programme, drawing up work programmes, for instance, and engaging with potential participants to ensure that they are fully aware of the opportunities on offer. A series of promotional events is planned, with BIS holding a formal high-level launch event for Horizon 2020 on 31 January next year. I am of course happy to share the details of the programme as it is agreed.
I shall touch on a few other questions that were raised. The issue of impact assessments was mentioned. As I said, excellence will remain a key part of this. My noble friend Lord Liverpool raised a concern over duplication of the European Parliament’s role as well as the role of the European Commission. That is something that we have taken up and we are assured that, rather than duplicate this, the role will be perceived as being complementary in nature.
I have great respect for my noble friend Lord Jenkin and 99% of the time I find myself agreeing with him on the matters that he raises. He referred to the political criteria currently being used and asked why certain issues have to be raised again. One of the things that I grew up with in personal, business and indeed political life was that if you believe in a particular point, if you believe in something such as the importance of excellence and the importance of reiterating a point, and you wish to provide some constructive input to your friends, you keep reminding them of it. However, for many years applications have been assessed on the basis of an independent peer review. The principle is now fully accepted and written into the Horizon 2020 legislation. As I have already said, the principle of excellence is manifest in the European Research Council, which is widely acknowledged and which supports world-class research.
My noble friend Lord Maclennan raised an important point about the EU research and innovation programme and the importance of participating and perhaps broadening it more internationally—I agree with him on this point—where there is mutual benefit to be had. Again, this will be an important feature of Horizon 2020. My noble friend also asked various questions about the committee’s reply to my right honourable friend David Willetts’s letter of 19 July. The TSB is actively looking to establish a Brussels presence, as I have already said. The issue of British nationals in the DG was raised. Up to 59 currently work in the research directorate-general. The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, raised concerns about humanities, which I hope I have addressed and reassured her about. There were a couple of other small questions which, if I may in the interests of time, I shall write to noble Lords about.
Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe
Before the noble Lord reaches his peroration, I wonder whether he could address a specific point. Because of the urgency of the position with regard to the arts and humanities, will he undertake to talk to the British Academy about its concerns?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I assure the noble Baroness that that is already happening: officials are talking on the exact point that she has raised. I do not think that it is happening in real time but I assure her that an ongoing conversation is taking place.
The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, raised various issues concerning China and the representations made there. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister is visiting China. Through UKTI, we have an established presence in China—in both Beijing and Shanghai—and we continue to promote not only UK interests but European interests as well.
The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, also suggested that I could perhaps use my influences in relation to the Prime Minister’s travel plans. I can only share my experience as someone whose in-laws are in Australia. When I go there, I try to book the A380 simply because it is an easier way to travel, and I shall certainly seek to share my experiences on that front.
Both the noble Lords, Lord Brooke and Lord Hunt, asked whether the Government are committed to research and innovation and whether we believe in it. I can do no better than pay tribute to my right honourable friend David Willetts, the Minister for Universities and Science. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, said that he has not been mentioning the EU much, but perhaps I may give a direct quotation. He said:
“Driving research and innovation in the EU is central to putting our economies back on the road to a sustainable and competitive future … This is one of the areas where we can benefit the most from constructive engagement with our European counterparts. Some of the most exciting and innovative research projects have been the fruits of greater cross-boundary cooperation and mobility”.