Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Tuesday 20th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, I would like to support the words of my two noble friends who have recently spoken. We will otherwise be faced with a situation where each new outbreak of terrorism somewhere or other will lead to a cutting back and diminution of traditional, well known and respected civil liberties.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may start by seeking the leave of the Committee to speak. I did not speak at Second Reading because I was suffering from a kidney infection and therefore was not able to be in the Chamber for the whole day. I have given notice to my noble friend the Minister and he is content for me to speak in Committee. I hope that noble Lords will allow me the same leave.

I rise to support both Amendments 2 and 55 and the comments of the noble Lords, Lord Pannick and Lord Hannay. I do not intend to make a Second Reading speech at this stage. The issues in relation to the concerns about this legislation are well known. I accept that we are in incredibly difficult times at the moment, and the more so in the light of what has happened over the past few weeks. We have seen the situation change again in relation to ISIL this morning. These are indeed difficult and troubled times, and I therefore understand the need for the Government to respond in order to protect our citizens.

However, I would dispute the comments made earlier that we need to send out a strong message to terrorists that we are serious about this. The message to send out to terrorists is that we hold our civil and individual liberties incredibly strongly, we value them hugely and we will not put forward legislation that permanently takes away the very liberties that terrorists would like to take from us. Putting a sunset clause into the Bill sends out a clear message that these are difficult times and we are responding to them, but that we are not going to change the way we do things in the United Kingdom permanently by giving away those liberties which terrorists would like us to give away. I therefore support the need for a sunset clause.

Amendment 55 gives comfort to those of us who are concerned about how this legislation will play out. We can all accept that there will be many individual cases where these powers will be used in subsequent years but it will turn out to be the case that they have been used incorrectly. The fact is that we as a Parliament should be able to say that at a certain time, whatever colour of Government we have at that point, we will reconsider these matters in light of how the powers have been applied and in the light of how we find the world at that time. An indication that this is not a permanent change would give some comfort to those of us who are concerned about these powers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Warsi]

I hesitate to rise but the discussion that took place was about the purpose of the temporary exclusion order. The clear sense that I got from the briefing and subsequent discussion with the Minister was that the whole purpose was to facilitate a controlled entry back into the United Kingdom, and a controlled entry back into a programme of potential deradicalisation and whatever that would involve, a move by the Government which I hugely support and welcome. I felt that if the whole purpose of this temporary exclusion order was not to keep people out of the country—as has been suggested in the press—but was about managing somebody’s return, to make sure that we protected the security of our citizens, then we are talking about an incredibly short period for which the person would find themselves outside the United Kingdom but a much longer period subject to conditions within the United Kingdom. If that is the case, I would be grateful if it was clarified at the Dispatch Box.

[Lord Hylton]

Before the Minister replies to that, can he include in his reply whether the Government have studied the experience of countries such as Denmark and Germany, which have working knowledge of how returns of such people can be satisfactorily dealt with?

United Nations: Secretary-General

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Tuesday 22nd July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Of course, that Secretary-General was appointed in 1972 when I was one year old but I will try to recall that period. The noble Lord makes an important point. The P5 has a veto in relation to these matters. Even when we end up with nine approved votes at the UN Security Council, the P5 can still come along and cut across it. That is why it is important that we achieve some consensus before we get to that point.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Does the noble Baroness agree that transparency would be much better than a system of Buggins’s turn, which appears to have prevailed in the past? Is not problem-solving a very important criterion?

[Baroness Warsi]

Transparency is important, but agreement and consensus are also essential in getting off on the right foot.

Palestine

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome the formation of a new interim technocratic Government for the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We have made it clear that our continued support for the new Government will depend on their commitment to the principles of non-violence and an acceptance of all previous agreements and obligations, including Israel’s legitimate right to exist. However, we believe that the current crisis in Gaza decreases the prospects for elections in the near future.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. She will appreciate that my Question was tabled a month ago. Will Her Majesty’s Government work towards a common European vision that would enable ordinary Israelis and Palestinians to demand effective ceasefires, together with an agreed ending to occupation and blockade? Are there not major incentives and penalties that Europe could apply?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, the view of the United Kingdom, and indeed of the European Union and the wider world, is that there should be a ceasefire and it should come as soon as possible. The noble Lord will also be aware that the unprecedented package that the European Union put forward in the event of an agreement when the Kerry talks began is clearly the kind of incentive to which the noble Lord refers. The prize for peace is a much better life, both for Palestinians and Israelis.

Ending Sexual Violence in Conflict, and Iraq

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Monday 16th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend will be aware that the United States has said that all options are still on the table, but I can say that the United Kingdom is not planning a military intervention. We are looking urgently at other ways to help, examining where, for example, we can give support in relation to counterterrorism expertise.

My noble friend makes an important point about regional players. Saudi Arabia and Iran of course have a role to play. Many of these groups and countries unfortunately feel a sense of affiliation to certain sections within Iraq and it is important that we stress again the need for stability and communities to work together. I am not aware of any proposals at this stage for United Nations Security Council involvement, but if I do I will certainly write to my noble friend.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, with regard to Iraq, can the noble Baroness say whether she has any information about the alleged presence inside Iraq of units of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, or indeed of any other Iranian forces? I ask that because, if there is any truth in that allegation, it could have a very destabilising effect. Secondly, will HMG consult with the Government of Iraq and the Kurdistan Regional Government with a view to finding out whether Kurdish military forces could come to the assistance of, and possibly recover, the city of Mosul? If that could be done, it would enable a large number of displaced people to return to their homes and avoid the necessity of their being in camps.

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, the situation on the ground is of course becoming clearer as each day goes by. Even the Iraqi Government were to some extent caught by surprise by the pace of what happened in the north. I cannot provide specific information on the noble Lord’s questions. I can say that the Iraqi Government will lead the protection of their communities. Of course, that will include the Kurdistan Regional Government, which is a part of the wider support in bringing stability to the country. We will of course support the Iraqi Government. That is why it is important that they are formed as soon as possible.

Israel and Palestine

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con)]

My Lords, we have made clear to both parties that the current negotiations represent a unique opportunity to achieve a just and lasting solution to the conflict. As the Prime Minister said during his recent visit to the region, we need to keep our eyes firmly fixed on the prize of peace: a secure Israel safe inside her borders and a state of Palestine living alongside, with all the benefits that that would bring.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Is it not shameful that, 40 years after the last international war in the region and 20 years after the Oslo agreements, there is still no final status agreement? Will the Government insist that the Government of Israel make their own proposals for ending the blockade of Gaza and the military and colonial occupation of the West Bank, otherwise world opinion will insist on boycott, disinvestment and sanctions? Will Europe and the Middle East use their economic power to counterbalance the huge strength of Israel? Will Her Majesty’s Government discuss this urgently?

[Baroness Warsi]

I know the noble Lord has written to me on a number of occasions in relation to this matter. Like him and all Members of this House, I would like the Middle East peace process resolved. We would like to see a secure Israel living alongside a secure and viable Palestinian state. We continue to urge that negotiations are the best route to achieve a solution that ends the conflict once and for all. Secretary Kerry’s tireless efforts provide a real opportunity to achieve that goal. Therefore, we are urging both parties to show the leadership that is needed to seize this moment.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I cannot give my noble friend the precise number, but of course I will write to him. However, I can assure him that a DfID team is already on the ground in Ukraine looking specifically at the technical support package I have already mentioned.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the OSCE should be involved with Ukraine at every level, from the humblest military or election observer up to the chairman in office? Will the OSCE look with particular care at whether certain sections and groups within the population have genuine grievances and how they might be remedied?

[Baroness Warsi]

There is already an OSCE presence in Ukraine, but the noble Lord will be pleased to know that a further 100 monitors will deploy with the first advance parties which left for the country at the weekend. A chief monitor will be appointed immediately, and the secretary-general of the OSCE has made it clear that he aims to increase the number of monitors up to 500, as has been agreed, at the earliest possible opportunity. These observers will be an essential element of the developments in Ukraine.

Israel and Palestine

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Monday 24th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

It is important that I try to focus on this Question. I understand why people try to read across to other matters, but successive government policies on the Occupied Palestinian Territories have been clear. Successive government policies about the two-state solution based on the 1967 borders, with agreed land swaps and a settlement for refugees in Jerusalem as a shared capital, have been the same. There is a Kerry framework agreement on which we hope progress will be made and we hope that that will be done by around the end of April. We are supporting and continue to support that, and we hope that it will yield some positive results.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government continue to raise the use of excessive force, the lack of proportionality and the almost complete impunity of the IDF when operating in occupied zones rather more strongly and effectively than has been the case in the past? There is the particular case of Raed Zeiter, a Palestinian civilian and a Jordanian magistrate, who was killed by the Allenby Bridge. Will the Government insist on a full and independent inquiry into his death?

[Baroness Warsi]

The views of this House are very clear, and I will certainly make sure that the strength of feeling on this matter is fed back. Officials from our embassy in Tel Aviv have raised with the IDF the issues of the Palestinian-Jordanian judge Raed Zeiter, who was tragically shot. I understand that there has been some progress, and that Prime Minister Netanyahu has issued a public apology and announced a joint Israeli-Jordanian investigation into the incident. Anger about it has been widespread and that has been communicated to the Israeli authorities.

Iran and Syria

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Thursday 5th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord raises an important point. It was right that we communicated properly the discussions that we were having with Iran and the outcome of those discussions. We must bear in mind that this is an interim discussion relating specifically to Iran’s nuclear programme. I think that our partners, whatever their reservations, and they are right to have reservations in the light of Iran’s previous conduct, accept that an Iran with nuclear arms, which was where Iran was heading, was not the right way forward, and therefore to halt the programme and in some ways to unroll it must be the way forward. This is an interim agreement with a view to a final settlement agreement in due course.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, Iran was unable to accept the conclusions of the first Geneva conference. Can the noble Baroness assure the House that that is not a sufficient reason in itself for excluding Iran from Geneva II?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord will be aware that that communiqué, among other things, reiterates the need for a transitional Government who have full executive powers and for that to be done with mutual consent. If Iran cannot agree with that statement, I am unsure what constructive role it could play by being at the table in Geneva. Iran can play a constructive role in advance of that—for example, by leveraging its influence in Syria to give us better humanitarian access. That is an early win that Iran could put on the table to show that its intent and actions supported its words.

Iran

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hylton]

My Lords, surely we need direct contact. Will the Government seek assurances from the Iranians that if we sent in a chargé d’affaires, he would be properly protected? Fuller representation can wait until later.

[Baroness Warsi]

I think that we are proposing official-to-official contact, possibly even in a third country, beforehand. That would be the normal course of events, not just in the case of Iran.

Turkey

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Thursday 20th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend makes an important point in relation to Turkey’s economy. It has enjoyed 5% growth on average over the past 10 years. It is effectively one of Europe’s strongest-growing economies. We must congratulate Turkey on that. Britain has seen success on the back of it, but I take the noble Baroness’s point in relation to further European accession. It is because Turkey continues its path towards European accession that it carries on making these reforms and we must therefore encourage rather than discourage it.

[Lord Hylton]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness’s response in regard to the Kurdish question that is long outstanding in Turkey. Does this not include work on a new constitution and can our Government be helpful through our experience of devolution within the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Warsi]

We always stand ready to support Turkey in whatever way we feel that we can add value.

G8 Meeting

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord raises a very important point. It is why transparency in tax will be a key priority at the G8 discussions. It is important that we get political support for ensuring that global tax rules are fit for the 21st century. It cannot be acceptable that companies can create these shadow shell companies offshore, which effectively means that both developed and developing countries do not get the benefits from revenue that should come from their profits.

[Lord Hylton]

Does the noble Baroness agree that Syria should be high on the G8 agenda, because of both the huge loss of life and the impact on all the neighbouring states? Would this topic not include violence against women in particular, such as mothers who have been forced to leave their homes in Syria?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord can be assured that Syria will be on the agenda. He may be aware that I repeated a Statement in this House yesterday. It is clear that this is one of our biggest foreign policy priorities. In terms of violence against women, the noble Lord may be aware of the Preventing Sexual Violence initiative, which the Foreign Secretary has been leading on. The G8 meeting of Foreign Ministers put out a robust and extensive statement on action taken to prevent sexual violence in conflict, and I am sure that this will be reaffirmed at the G8 meeting.

Iraq: Camp Liberty

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Lord Hylton

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I can confirm that five residents have already been readmitted to the United Kingdom. They had refugee status in the United Kingdom and had relevant documentation. A further 52 do not have current regularised documentation but have had refugee status in the United Kingdom before. We are considering those applications, but I am sure that noble Lords would agree that time has passed since these people left the United Kingdom and their coming back in. It is right that we consider what they have been involved in in the mean time to ensure that any concerns that we may have are properly addressed.

[Lord Hylton]

My Lords, is it not the case that this business has been hanging on for far too long and does the noble Baroness agree that the United States has a considerable responsibility in the matter, having given Camp Ashraf people protected status?