Crown Estate Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

3rd reading
Monday 18th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for having made a bit of progress with regard to Wales in the Bill. Having the nominated person is a step in the right direction. It does not deliver everything that we and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, were pressing for, but I hope we will return to this. I have coming up for Second Reading a Private Member’s Bill on the devolution of the Crown Estate to Wales, as Scotland benefits from, but I thank the Minister for a small step in the right direction.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the core objectives of this Bill were of course supported by all sides of your Lordships’ House, and there has been a bit of progress on so many fronts. There are a number of issues where I still have some concerns, and I know that there is some unease on these Benches. I hope that the Government will deliberate further.

I note the improvements relating to environmental concerns that were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. They were somewhat addressed by the Government. I am sure that she would have liked them to go further, but it was progress none the less. I hope that the Government do not seek to reverse the changes relating to salmon that were spearheaded by my noble friend Lord Forsyth.

I remain disappointed that sensible checks on unconstrained borrowing did not make it into the Bill. They garnered significant support from these Benches, but sadly we did not get that vote over the line. I appreciate the Minister’s comments about the sale of certain assets, particularly the seabed, which all noble Lords should be concerned about.

I am grateful to the Minister, his Bill team and all noble Lords who participated on the Bill. On a personal note, after more than 3,000 spoken contributions in eight years, this is my last outing at the Dispatch Box. I look forward to serving your Lordships’ House from the Back Benches.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Actually, this is exactly what this contract is trying to achieve. By giving a three-year horizon for Avanti management to properly plan, it will not be necessary to micromanage Avanti. The Department for Transport will continue to support it and, as I said in my opening Answer, the net advocacy scores show that customers are supportive of Avanti. I am sorry that the noble Lord is not, but the numbers speak for themselves—and these are customers speaking and not the Department for Transport.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness appreciate that Avanti avoided cancellations and late running on the north Wales coast to London line this summer by cancelling and changing the timetable and only running trains from Holyhead to Crewe? Will she ensure that Avanti’s performance is measured in future on a dual basis—between Holyhead and London on the one hand, and the rest of the service on the other?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I will certainly take that back to the department. I think the noble Lord will also be aware that Avanti made some timetable changes over the summer. They were very short-term and over a fixed period. That was due to industrial action—sadly—and the annual leave burden.

Network Rail: Funding and Reliability

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Funnily enough, I do not wholly recognise those figures, but all the contracts and the rationale behind them are set out and published. All the performance information that goes into the award of any financial returns is assessed by an independent evaluator, and discussions are made on that basis. The contracts are prepared well in advance, and we must abide by them.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

The Question refers to the maintaining of “current levels of reliability”, but is the Minister aware that the current levels of reliability on the Holyhead to London line are totally unacceptable? In the recent past, we have had trains going the other way, from Euston to Holyhead, turning round at Chester and leaving the passengers to their own devices to find connecting trains. Only this week, trains from Holyhead to London were advertised as fully booked and not available for that reason. Is not that totally unacceptable, and what are the Government going to do to improve the service?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I completely agree with the noble Lord. I am not content with current levels of reliability. That was obviously in the Question, and it would not have been in any response that I have given. We are aware that, despite 10% lower passenger demand on our trains at the moment, and slightly fewer trains running, performance is unacceptably low. The causes of that are many. Industrial action has had a huge impact on the performance of our railways, but we are working with the industry, and we would like to improve our relationship with the unions such that everybody can work together to give us the reliable and modern railway that we need.

Train Services: North of England

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Monday 27th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I think I have mentioned at the Dispatch Box many times that the Bill for rail reform will be introduced when parliamentary time allows. It is worth pointing out that an awful lot can be done before legislation is put in place. One key thing that can be carried out is workforce reform. We have to be absolutely realistic about the challenge that our railways face. Without careful and reasonable reform, there will be no long-term future for the railway. I put it to the noble Lord that if he has any influence whatever among the leaders of the trade unions, he asks them to put forward to their membership the packages that the Government have put forward. We need to understand whether or not we are going to be able to reform the workforce; if we are not, the consequences will be quite severe.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, will the Minister take this opportunity to kill stone-dead the reports that are circulating that, despite Avanti West Coast’s appalling performance, the Government are still minded to renew its contract?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I cannot possibly respond to those reports, but all options remain on the table with regard to all the different contracts as they come up for renewal. There are very well set out processes involving independent evaluation of performance, and all those things will be gone through when it comes to considering Avanti West Coast’s contract.

Transport: South Wales

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are working closely with the Welsh Government. A newly established Wales rail board, which reports to both the Secretary of State for Transport and the Welsh Minister in charge of climate change, will consider all the different options in Wales and bring forward the most needed.

I of course echo the noble Baroness’s condolences, which are deeply felt on this side of the House too.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, in supporting the Question of the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, I point out that the union connectivity report also specifically recommends improving connectivity on the north Wales coast line

“for faster journey times, more resilience and capacity … to better serve North Wales”.

Since then, the number of through trains has halved and advertised services have been cancelled at short notice. When will the Government get their act together?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Train services are of course a matter for Transport for Wales but, on the infrastructure, recommendation 7 encouraged the Government to look at the north Wales transport corridor. We will take that recommendation on board. Funding is available in the UK connectivity development fund, and, as ever, we look to proposals from Transport for Wales and others.

Rail Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for raising this issue. It is something that is top of mind—and, indeed, the pandemic certainly showed everyone in the nation how important freight is and how important it is to get it moving around. The Government have published their future of freight strategy, and Sir Peter Hendy has published his Union Connectivity Review. All these are looking at these very important elements of connectivity to our ports. In the Autumn Statement, the Government recommitted to transformative growth plans for our railways, and we will look at rail enhancements to our ports as part of that.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that this question refers to service? The problem that we face with Avanti West Coast and in other areas is that, when there is a lack of the necessary number of drivers or trains, trains get diverted to certain popular lines, away from other areas which find themselves without any service whatever. If the railways are meant to be run as a public service, there should be an entitlement to that service in every part that depends on that line, not just a concentration on those lines that make the most profit.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that some train operating companies have struggled recently: they have had to cut their services, and that is deeply regrettable. However, since then a lot has been done around recruiting more drivers. Services are coming back and I hope the noble Lord will see an improvement.

Great British Railways

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can absolutely assure my noble friend that the Government are hard at work with the train operating companies, Network Rail and everybody in the railway industry to make sure that as much progress that can be made is being made. For example, the accessibility audit of all railway stations is now well under way and should yield really good results for accessibility in the future.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware from previous questions of the considerable concern about the service between Euston and Holyhead. Members of all parties in another place have raised it on a number of occasions. Given the seriousness of the position, which is that what used to be eight through trains a day is now down to one, what is the Minister doing about this? She has recognised the problem. Has she taken any action?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, I do recognise the problem. We absolutely have taken action. We have daily meetings with the train operating company. It has put together a recovery plan, which has been reviewed by the ORR and Network Rail’s programme management office. There will be a very significant step change in the timetable in December, because 100 newly trained train drivers are going to be fully deployed by December. So early December will be the next change in the timetable, and we expect significant improvements to services to Wales and elsewhere at that time.

Avanti West Coast

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Well, I am pleased that my noble friend is pleased with the disabled service, which has received a huge amount of investment and insight recently. It is critical that our trains are accessible to everybody, and being able to onboard and offboard a train is a key element to making them accessible. I hear what he says about the service to Penrith, of which he is a frequent user. We all want it to be better, but we have to play on the pitch we have got. In this situation, if there are not enough train drivers to drive the trains, we cannot have the services. We are holding Avanti to account in looking at its plans to recruit more train drivers, and of course we are looking at its performance. No decision has been taken about whether Avanti has a role to play in the future of Britain’s railways. That will be taken by the new Secretary of State. All options remain on the table and evidence is being gathered as we speak.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a regular user of the Avanti service from Holyhead to Euston—or at least I used to be. There is now only one through train a day, leaving Holyhead at about six o’clock in the morning. The reason given, as the Minister said, is the shortage of drivers. It is clearly not possible for Avanti to solve that problem, because it has gone on for month after month, so what are the Government going to do about it?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I absolutely hear the noble Lord’s concerns about north Wales. I understand it has been particularly hit by the reduction in services by Avanti. In looking at where Avanti came from and is going, we should remember that it had the contract for only 16 weeks before Covid turned up. It started with a timetable of four trains an hour. It got up to seven and was heading towards eight, and then we hit this slight buffer. In this situation, we are keen to restore proper services to north Wales. There are also things we need to do at Chester and the Manchester-London route is an absolute priority to make sure that people can travel. We are looking at all of these in collaboration with Avanti but, as I have said, without train drivers willing to drive the trains, as they were previously, we are slightly shackled.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Monday 4th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are very conscious of increases in rail fares across the entire network, which is why we used the July RPI figure to increase the regulated fares this time around. We could have used the later figure and it would have been higher, but we deliberately decided to use a lower figure. How we will take subsequent rises forward is still under consideration. We recognise the impact that the cost of living challenge is having and will bear this in mind as we think about future price rises.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness appreciate the negative effect that performance on the west coast line is having on potential industrial and economic development in north Wales? Undermining rail connectivity between north Wales and other industrial centres in England means that the convenience of being located there is now very difficult to sell to incoming industrialists. Are the Government satisfied with that result from their policy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are not satisfied with the current performance of the train operating companies, and we are doing all we can to work with them and get through this difficult phase of the current Covid uptick and improving timetables. The timetables have been improved, not only by increasing the number of trains coming in on the west coast main line, but by ensuring that future timetables are flexible and respond to demands such that, if people choose to invest in north Wales—I encourage them to do so—they would have appropriate rail services.

Transport: Zero Carbon Target

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, hydrogen vehicles are better for the environment only if the hydrogen is green hydrogen and made from renewable energy in the first place. We do understand that economic incentives may be required to encourage people to look at hydrogen but, at the end of the day, it is not an “either battery electric or hydrogen” situation; we will probably need both in great quantities, and indeed any other low-carbon energy systems that might become available. The Government will think about the financial support they might offer to encourage the take-up of those as they become available.

[Lord Wigley (PC) [V]]

My Lords, the Government’s investment in the Holyhead hydrogen hub is welcome, as is the hydrogen transport hub on Teesside, but can the Minister confirm that further plans are in development to create additional hydrogen hubs across Wales and the UK? These will help unlock the potential of the hydrogen economy. As so many of our current electricity generation plants will be closed by 2050, will enough new capacity be brought forward to facilitate this?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately, I cannot fully answer the noble Lord’s question. Much of our hydrogen strategy will be in the transport decarbonisation plan, followed by the UK hydrogen strategy, so I cannot say now where new hydrogen hubs will be set up. But the Government are very focused on ensuring that we have access to good hydrogen, because it is a suitable, flexible energy source that can be used across transport, heat and power.

Flybe

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Thursday 5th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord raises an interesting point about PSOs. The Government are looking at all options to restore as many routes as possible. We must also be mindful that wherever we restore routes, we must do so within the law as it stands regarding PSOs.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that 27% of flights from Cardiff Airport are operated by Flybe, and that 340,000 passengers a year use it to fly from Cardiff to European destinations? Will the Government arrange urgent discussions not only with other air operators and all train operators but with the devolved Governments to discuss the short-term crisis facing them and how to achieve a longer-term strategic settlement that addresses the economic implications for regional economies?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord raises an interesting point. My colleague, the Aviation Minister, will be making calls this afternoon to the devolved Administrations and many other stakeholders to ensure that this is the start of a long-term discussion about the importance of air connectivity to the regions.

Holyhead

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Monday 2nd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for asking me about the free ports because they could be a great way of boosting trade, attracting inward investment and driving productivity. The Government have published a consultation document. We will be looking for up to 10 national hubs to work as trade, innovation and commerce centres. A consultation process is under way and we look forward to being able to announce the results soon.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the recent decision by Stena Line to re-register its new boat, the “Stena Estrid”, which was originally registered in Cardiff, in Limassol, with significant implications for those working in the Port of Holyhead? If she does not have the answer to this at hand, will she write to me with any details she can find?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I was very prepared to respond to questions about ports but not on ships today, so I will have to write to him.

Animal Welfare (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Wednesday 6th March 2019 Grand Committee

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, this instrument makes primarily minor operability changes to three pieces of legislation to ensure that retained direct EU legislation protecting the welfare of animals kept at control posts while being transported and at the time of their killing will continue to operate effectively once the UK has left the EU.

The first piece of legislation, EC Regulation 1255/97, relates to control posts. Control posts are approved areas for animals to be unloaded, fed, watered and rested for at least 12 hours or more during long journeys. There are currently 11 control posts designated in the UK. The regulation sets out the health and hygiene requirements for control posts and details how they should be constructed, operated and approved. It makes a number of minor operability changes, including updating references and definitions. The power to designate or suspend control posts will remain devolved to the relevant Ministers in the devolved Administrations, as is currently the case. These regulations will not alter the current requirements or standards for control posts, which will be maintained after exit.

The second piece of legislation relates to the welfare of animals during transport. EC Regulation 1/2005 sets out the standards to be applied when moving live vertebrate animals for commercial purposes as well as the necessary documentation to accompany the journey and the checks to be carried out on consignments leaving or entering the EU. The regulation also sets out the requirements for transporters, drivers and vehicles to be authorised. These regulations will continue to enable authorisations for transporters, drivers and vehicles issued by an EU member state to be recognised within the UK. This approach will help to minimise friction at the border and prevent potential animal welfare issues arising from delays of animals coming from the European Union entering the UK.

Finally, the instrument makes technical changes to EC Regulation 1099/2009 relating to the protection of animals at the time of killing to ensure that it remains operable after the UK exits the EU, including transferring obligations on the European Commission to the relevant UK authorities. The regulation requires that animals shall be spared any avoidable pain, distress or suffering during their killing and related operations. It sets out detailed rules for the accepted methods of stunning and killing animals, as well as the layout, construction, equipment, handling and restraining operations at slaughterhouses. This instrument will not alter the current requirements or standards which will be maintained after exit.

However, I want to draw noble Lords’ attention to one policy change contained in these regulations. EC Regulation 1099/2009 requires all slaughterers to be trained and competent in the tasks they undertake, with certificates of competence issued by a competent authority. Currently, a certificate of competence issued by any member state must be recognised in the UK. These regulations will end that requirement. Continued recognition of certificates issued in other member states would open up potential enforcement issues. We would be unable to suspend or revoke a certificate issued in another member state if a slaughterer breached the requirements of the retained EU legislation or domestic legislation. The impact on businesses will be minimal. A very limited number of slaughterhouse employees will need to apply for a certificate of competence issued by a competent authority in the UK to be able to continue to work in the UK after exit. Applying will carry a cost of around £225 and we expect that fewer than 200 individuals out of a total population of 6,000 people with this certificate will be affected. This is around 3% of all slaughterers.

While there was no formal duty to consult, we have engaged directly with industry representative bodies on this issue and more widely, and we have not received any expressions of concern. The devolved Administrations have been consulted on this instrument and they are content. The purpose of the instrument is to ensure that the three pieces of EU legislation relating to animal welfare will be fully operable after exit. For the reasons I have set out, I beg to move.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I have a link with the British Veterinary Association. I should draw that to the attention of the Committee, although it is not a financial interest. This order provides significant recognition of the variation between the devolved authorities. That is right, and it already exists to a large extent. However, it requires effective co-ordination between the devolved authorities to ensure that where there are matters of common interest, they are brought together. Can the Minister give us some assurance that those mechanisms are in place or, to the extent that they need to be strengthened, they can be put into place in good time?

The second point I want to raise is with regard to the certificate of competence issued to slaughterers by other member states. As things stand, they must be recognised in the UK, but that will end for the reasons the Minister has mentioned. Such certificates of competence are required by slaughterhouses in the EU to show that individuals have been trained to the necessary standard to undertake animal stunning and killing. If these changes occur in the UK and there is a reciprocal change in the EU 27, will that affect the number of competent people who will be available to undertake the work? We are aware of the number of people from European countries who are working in these areas in the UK. If there is a danger of us losing some of the supply of these essential people, what proposals do the Government have to ensure that there is not a lapse in this area that could have an impact on animal welfare?

Honda in Swindon

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My noble friend makes a number of interesting points. Certainly, the plant in Turkey is also being closed by Honda as it focuses its operating facilities in Japan and the US. Sadly, there will also be 1,100 job losses in Turkey. We have to make sure that if customs processes are in place, they are as frictionless as possible. Some interesting facts—I found them interesting anyway—are that the Honda plant has to have 2 million components delivered every single day in 350 lorries and that it has one hour’s worth of components lineside. Noble Lords will therefore agree that making sure that lorries can get in and out of plants and across borders is important.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that not only 3,500 direct jobs are affected but as many 30,000 jobs in supplier industries, as reported this morning? Given the extent of this disaster—while welcoming the Secretary of State having recognised that Brexit has had an effect on industrial investment—at what stage will the Government reconsider the whole unfortunate Brexit episode if this is to be the consequence?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord mentioned the supply chain. Forgive me for not mentioning this earlier but one of the key strands of work for the task force will be to identify the supply chain. At the moment, we are not clear on exactly how many jobs are involved. I know that some companies are 100%-owned by Honda and there will inevitably be job losses there. For others, Honda represents one of their customers and we need to understand the impact on such companies and whether there are alternative sources of revenue and investment that they can make use of.

Brexit: Sheep Farmers

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I draw attention to my relevant interests as a member of the Farmers Union of Wales.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, we recognise the sheep sector’s immense contribution to rural life, local economies and the iconic landscapes of the different countries of the UK. We are carrying out a programme of analytical work that will aid our understanding of how leaving the EU will affect the UK sheep sector. This work will help us shape new domestic agricultural policies and explore new trading opportunities.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Given that 90% of Welsh sheepmeat exports go to the European Union and that lambs born today will probably go to market after 29 March next year—and, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, may face a 50% or higher tariff barrier—can the Minister assure the House that the Government will have a contingency plan in place to help sheep farmers facing possible market collapse next April? When will the farming industry be given at least an outline of any such plan?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, the Government are committed to securing the best deal with the EU and beyond for the farming, fisheries and food sectors. In safeguarding the sheep sector, we have committed to continue the £3 billion of agricultural support until the end of the Parliament in 2022, and the Environment Secretary has said that support for our farmers will continue for many years to come where the environmental benefits of that spending are clear.

Fracking: Policing

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Wigley

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, I think it is a great shame that Scotland has taken the decision that it has. It has had a moratorium on fracking since 2015, and it appears that this is now permanent. However, we believe that hydraulic fracturing can be done safely in the UK, and that there are strong regulations in place to protect individuals. It is important because it will reduce our gas imports, create jobs and heat our homes.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that there is a moratorium on fracking in Wales. In those circumstances, is it not a bit ironic that the Gwent police force was sent up to Lancashire for the purposes of controlling the protesters? Given that the costs of such an exercise can sometimes become very great, can she give an assurance that all the costs incurred by Gwent will be paid for from central funds?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, as I am sure the noble Lord is aware, mutual aid between different police forces is very well established, and the costs for meeting those things are, of course, sorted out in the wash.