Transport: Zero-emission Vehicles, Drivers and HS2

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend. I note his reflections and, to be honest, I share his disappointment to some extent, but I accept the decision. He made some valid points about the challenges that still face the HS2 project as a whole, and I agree: there are no major infrastructure projects that do not have significant challenges. But it is heartening to know that the Government are beefing up the governance arrangements of HS2 Ltd. A new chief executive is being recruited, and Sir Jon Thompson, the new chair who took his place in February, is very much involved in the recruitment to make sure that we get the right person to take the project forward.

My noble friend mentioned that there is some switch from capital to revenue—that always makes a Transport Minister excited because we do get much revenue funding in transport—but it is still mostly capital, of course, because we are talking about capital spend. This is an opportunity to mention one other piece of good news that I have not been able to mention to date: the “Get Around for £2” bus fare cap has been extended to the end of December. Again, that is revenue spend, and it is being used by millions of users. It has been really well received, and I am very pleased that we have been able to extend it.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interest as chairman of the Great Western Railway stakeholder board. It is a privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, who in the view of many of us was the most outstanding and successful Secretary of State for Transport in the past 12 years. The very good sense with which he spoke in this debate is an indication of why he is regarded with such respect.

The noble Lord was absolutely right in all his points. I do not intend to repeat them, but I would like to address the Minister, for whom I feel enormous sympathy because she has defended High Speed 2 day after day from that Dispatch Box and has not been supported by everyone in the House—and certainly not by everyone on the Benches behind her. She has now come along to defend a decision that is, frankly, absolutely indefensible because of the damage it does to the future prospects of the great cities of this country, as the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, said.

I have one question, which occurred to me when I heard the Prime Minister’s statement and read the documents today: what has happened to Great British Railways? Has it now been completely junked? If so, would it not be honest of the Government to say so? It is not a question of waiting for parliamentary time or using other means of establishing Great British Railways, about which I have written to the Minister. Is it still the Government’s intention that there will be a guiding mind and that the decisions about the future of British railways will at last be taken by people who understand how they work?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure the noble Lord that it is still the Government’s intention that there will be Great British Railways. As I have said previously, it will depend on parliamentary time, but an enormous amount of work is of course going on in the meantime to establish an interim guiding mind to get as many things as we can. There are matters to work through as we develop the guiding mind principle—industrial action obviously being one of them—to give the senior leadership the head space they need to make some significant changes to establish a guiding mind.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The department is well aware that there is some overcrowding on CrossCountry routes. We are considering options, with CrossCountry, on the size of its future fleet. This will be balanced with the interests of taxpayers, given the financial pressures.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of the Great Western Railway stakeholder board. GWR is of course a FirstGroup member, so it is proper that I should declare it. I thank the Minister for the letter she sent earlier today. In that letter, there is no reference anywhere to Great British Railways. How does the new contract for Avanti fit in with the Government’s plans for Great British Railways, or is it the case that GBR is not going to happen?

Network Rail: Ely Area Capacity Enhancement Programme

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are incredibly ambitious when it comes to investment in the north and the Midlands. As the noble Lord will know, we have the Northern Powerhouse Rail programme and we are taking forward all sorts of different schemes in the area.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, there can be very few other investment projects that have such enormous environmental benefits as the Ely enhancement. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, referred to 98,000 lorry journeys that would transfer to rail on 2,900 extra freight trains, but the benefits extend to passenger services. It is almost inconceivable that the Government will refuse to do this, because the rate of return on investment is £4.80 in benefits for every £1 spent on it. I cannot imagine there are many other schemes in the rail enhancement pipeline that will match that sort of figure, so why can the Minister not be more positive about it now?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not recognise the figure that the noble Lord cites. It is important that we reassess our business cases based on revised travel patterns as they are now, and that has an impact on the business case—but, as I say, we are reviewing them and decisions will be made in due course.

Great British Railways

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I point my noble friend back to the long-term strategy for rail, which will help the industry to understand what the medium-term future for the railways looks like. As to what we have been doing to increase revenues and free up the train operating companies, we are looking at the current railway contracts and at ways to put in stronger revenue-incentive mechanisms and allow train operating companies to put resources into increasing revenues.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

The Minister will have heard strong support for the establishment of Great British Railways across the House. This is an innovation that I think would survive a change of government, if one were to occur next year. Would it help her if she took a look at the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994, and the establishment of an SI under that Act, which would enable the department’s franchising functions to be devolved to GBR if we are not to have primary legislation?

HS2: Wales

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

If the noble Lord is talking about HS2, I do not recognise his comments about the Government being ripped off, but I certainly recognise that the Government must make sure that the scheme is adequately scrutinised. Indeed, that is the case. As he will have seen from the most recent update to Parliament, HS2 remains within its funding envelope.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right to say that north Wales will benefit from the construction of HS2, with shorter journey times and relief of overcrowding on the west coast main line. Would it not be even more sensible, rather than expecting passengers to change at Crewe, if the north Wales coast line were electrified before High Speed 2 got to Crewe, so they could run through trains along the north Wales coast which are all High Speed 2 trains?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is trying to get me to make commitments from the Dispatch Box which I am not able to make, unfortunately. However, I think it is worth understanding that the Crewe interchange as it is now planned was substantially revamped following significant concerns from stakeholders in north Wales and beyond. We have altered the Crewe northern connection so that it could allow for five to seven trains per hour to call at Crewe and then to be able to go down the high-speed line or, indeed, the conventional track.

Stockton to Darlington Railway Anniversary

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and refer to my railway interests as declared in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, railways are a product of Britain’s rich history of engineering innovation and the 200-year anniversary is a nationally important moment to mark and to celebrate. The DfT will work with DCMS, other government departments and the whole industry to make this event very special for workers and passengers.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome that splendid Answer. What response will the Government give to the submission from Sir Peter Hendy, on behalf of industry, local and national museums, the supply chain, Heritage Railway and education, for government funds to ensure that there will be a memorable series of events in 2025, including the recreation of the opening day journey of Locomotion No. 1 and the creation of a walking and cycling route along the 26 miles of the original line as a permanent legacy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for highlighting some of the tremendous things that we can achieve to celebrate this 200-year anniversary. I am also aware that Sir Peter Hendy is out there with his begging bowl and working his magic. I am sure he is doing exactly what we want him to do, which is bringing together all the interested parties to work with government. This is a huge opportunity to not only celebrate the heritage of our railway network but promote the wider, modern system across the country.

International Travel Rules

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We have ongoing conversations with all the devolved Administrations, because this is so important. I recognise the noble Lord’s point: if you are travelling to Northern Ireland, chances are you may be coming through one of the large airports in England. It is very important, but we must recognise that health policy is devolved. However, we have every intention of working as closely as possible with the devolved nations and ensuring that our interventions are as aligned as possible.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

The time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. I apologise to the noble Baronesses who could not be called.

Historical Railways Estate

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Monday 5th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and remind the House of my railway interests declared in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the management of the historic railways estate is kept under constant review and there is an independent quarterly audit. Checks are made to ensure that proposals do not prejudice the reopening of railway lines, and Highways England has regular discussions with the devolved Administrations, local authorities and other stakeholders.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will agree that the most significant and expensive obstacle to fulfilling the Government’s plans to reverse the Beeching cuts of the 1960s and 1970s is restoring the infrastructure—track bed and bridges particularly—that was so short-sightedly destroyed after lines were closed. No doubt she has read the article and leader in Saturday’s Times. Can she confirm that Highways England has now reduced to 69 its hitlist of 134 structures to be destroyed? Will she instruct it to consult not just with local authorities but with cycling and walking groups and heritage railways, before it goes ahead with any more of the cultural vandalism that we have already seen?

Britain’s Railways

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Bring back the Young-Major plan for rail greatness is what I say. I can absolutely confirm all those things to my noble friend. We are retaining the original objectives of privatisation to make sure that passenger services are awarded following a fair competition. We had to strip out some of the complexity of those competitions to allow train operators to bid on a simpler basis, and we think we have achieved that. We will open up new opportunities for private sector involvement where we can.

As I have said, the capital cost of passenger and freight rolling stock will be borne by the private sector. There will be a certain element of a guiding mind when it comes to a strategic intervention on the rolling stock, but this will not preclude train operating companies purchasing their own rolling stock. Obviously, we are replacing the franchises with this more commercially sustainable model of a passenger service contract, which will ensure that we get the right amount of innovation into the system and passengers benefit.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I remind the House of my railway interests as declared in the register. I am happy to share the optimism of the noble Baroness for the future of the railway, not least because of the involvement of both Andrew Haines and Sir Peter Hendy in Great British Railways. I have the highest confidence in both, and I believe they will work well to deliver what could be a very successful railway.

I would like to ask the Minister one specific question about the reference in section 4, on page 33 of the White Paper, to a “national brand and identity”. Does this mean that train operators will have to repaint all their rolling stock in new standard Great British Railway colours? Not even British Rail had a common identity for all its passenger trains. The Government may find some resistance to making companies abandon their established, and in many cases attractive, liveries.

May I also ask about the reference to electrification, which I asked about last Tuesday, particularly the references to Oxford, Sheffield and Swansea on page 14? An announcement is promised “shortly” on page 88. How shortly is “shortly”?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, shortly is shortly. I, too, am optimistic about the railways and all forms of transport because they are the great connector. The noble Lord asks about branding. Branding is important because having a coherent, consistent and clearly branded rail network gives passengers greater confidence in using it. Great British Railways will use an updated version of the classic double arrow logo. We also have an updated version of the font, which I think will be widely recognised across the system. However, variants of the national brand will be developed to reflect the English regions and Scotland and Wales, while emphasising that the railway is one network serving the whole of Great Britain. It may well be that, as the noble Lord suggests, there will be slight variants depending on which part of the country the train operates in.

Railway Industry Association Report

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government welcome this report and agree that further electrification is required to decarbonise the railway, alongside the deployment of hydrogen and battery trains on some lines. In the last three years, we have completed almost 700 miles of electrification in England and Wales, and we will continue to do more.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome that Answer. The Railway Industry Association report is indeed excellent and the case it makes for a rolling programme of electrification is unanswerable. Can the Minister confirm that the Government are committed to decarbonising the railway by no later than 2050? If so, do they accept that the most effective and beneficial way to deliver that is a steady, stable stream of electrification of between 400 and 500 kilometres each year? Will she and her ministerial colleagues in the DfT do their utmost to resist the Treasury’s efforts again to kick this into the long grass and water it all down by putting it off into the spending review?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government’s plans for decarbonising all forms of transport will be set out in the transport decarbonisation plan, which will be published shortly, but the noble Lord is quite right that the best way to make the most effective use of the supply chain is to have a rolling programme. That is why electrification projects are included in the rail network enhancements pipeline, which was last published in October 2019 and will be updated in the near future. I take his point about the Treasury, but it is also the case that we must be prudent and stay within the funding envelope that we have available.

Domestic Air Travel

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right that customers could and should make various decisions based on price. That is why the Government asked for the Williams Rail Review to be done; I recognise that it has not yet been published, because of the pandemic, but it will come out shortly. The way we reform our railway systems should have a very positive impact on fares.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a group of Green Party members who call themselves Greens for HS2? They say on social media:

“we should support HS2 because it has a big role in a low-CO2 sustainable transport network for the UK in the 2030s and beyond. HS2 supports our sustainable transport goals, nationally and locally.”

Does the Minister agree that our HS2 project will support the climate case to shift travel from air and road and, indeed, improve wildlife biodiversity? While we are about it, can she confirm that there is no question of delaying the eastern leg of HS2 to the East Midlands, Sheffield and Leeds?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, indicated to me in the Chamber just then that they are a very small group within the Green Party. I, for one, offer them my wholehearted support, given that they are able to take over the Green Party’s transport policy and align with the Government, who want to see HS2 built.

Rail Fares: Flexi-season Tickets

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Not at all: TfN was allocated £150 million at the 2015 spending review for this integrated and smart travel programme. It was always the case that that funding was going to expire at the end of the current financial year. To date, TfN has managed to spend £24 million, and that is a good start, but we are now considering how best to deliver more effectively—and perhaps more quickly—a rollout of smart ticketing to improve passenger services across the north.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed and I apologise to the two noble Lords who were not able to be called.

Railways: Electrification

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not aware of whether we have investigated the HS1 line specifically, but the Government do support modal shift for freight. For 2021, we increased the modal shift revenue support scheme, which aims to shift road freight on to rail and water, by 28% to £20 million. This has removed 900,000 HGV journeys from the roads.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

I congratulate the Minister on the welcome commitment to modal shift that she made in reply to the last question. Is she aware, however, that extended journey times caused by the need to change from diesel to electric traction are one of the greatest deterrents to growing the rail freight business? The EU Goods Sub-Committee recently took evidence from a major freight operator which said it would it prefer to use the railway from east coast ports like Felixstowe, but journey times by road to the midlands and the north were much shorter. Will the Minister encourage her department to look at modest electrification projects that would make a real difference to the rail freight business?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, we will look at modest electrification projects when and if they are brought forward. The issue of journey times is important, but rail freight has the advantage of being able to carry less urgent goods—heavy construction materials, for example—over long distances. Therefore, it can be used for lots of different types of freight, which is to its advantage.

Airports National Policy Statement

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Monday 18th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As the noble Lord will know, the climate change committee published its report on 9 December, which is not that long ago, and Christmas was in the intervening period. We are looking very carefully at the recommendations. International aviation emissions is a very knotty problem which can lead to unintended consequences if countries act unilaterally. We really need to see international action, and the UK is at the forefront.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that, when the Prime Minister made his extremely welcome announcement on 11 February that the Government were proceeding with HS2, he said:

“Passengers arriving at Birmingham Airport will be able to get to central London by train in 38 minutes, which compares favourably with the time it takes to get from Heathrow by taxi”?—(Official Report, Commons, 11/2/20; col. 712.)


In view of that, can the Minister give a commitment that her department will look very carefully at HS2’s potential for shifting traffic from domestic flights to trains, as that would make a huge difference to the carbon emissions target?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that HS2 will provide huge benefits and may well lead to some people choosing to make a domestic train journey rather than taking a domestic flight. He is also right that it connects Birmingham Airport to north-west London in particular; I am sure the residents there will appreciate that.

Network Rail’s Enhancements Pipeline

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Wednesday 21st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I was not aware of this particular species of bat that lives in this tree. If the noble Baroness could forward information to me, I will make sure that the HS2 Minister receives it.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

I refer the House to my railway interests declared in the register. Does the Minister agree that electrification has a central part to play in achieving the Government’s value-for-money and decarbonisation agendas, as does the HS2 project? When will the go-ahead be given to completing paused projects, such as the lines to Bristol and Oxford and the Midland main line? What progress is being made in identifying discrete electrification projects on relatively short stretches of main line over hills, where journey times can be saved going uphill and batteries regenerated going downhill?

International Travel

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Wednesday 9th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for their contributions to a small but very important change to our international air travel corridors. The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked “Why now?”, with the implication that this could have been done sooner. It could not. The Government have had to put infrastructure in place to deal with challenges that previously were simply not under consideration. As well as putting the infrastructure in place, we had to get the data.

When we first announced the imposition of the 14-day quarantine period—the self-isolation period—at the same time we set up the joint biosecurity centre. This important group brings together intelligence from across the UK and from abroad. It has been able to build up its resources, particularly its skills and expertise in assessing the risk of inbound travel, which historically had not been a massive feature for government, nor was it required to be so. The building up of these resources in the joint biosecurity centre means that we have a much better ability to analyse the vast quantities of data we are getting, both domestically and from overseas.

The joint biosecurity centre carries out an assessment on countries and now it will look at individual islands as well. Various things go into the assessment. The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked what the criteria were for inclusion on the list. If I could set out the criteria and percentages, or the various hurdles, for each one included on the list, that would be very simple. However, it is slightly more complicated than that because it is a combined assessment of all sorts of different factors—the estimate of the currently infectious percentage of the population of the country or island, virus incidence rates, trends in the incidence rates, hospitalisations and, sadly, deaths. Other factors include transmission status, testing capacity in a country or island and the quality of the data. All those things are built up and put together to form a picture of whether a country or island should be included on the list. We have got to the stage where we can do this now and we are able to include islands.

The noble Lord went on to ask how many people coming from overseas travel have had a positive test. I do not have that data to hand. Of course, it is the case that people have had positive tests when they have come from overseas travel. That is why it is clear that the self-isolation policy needs to be in place. People need to fill in the passenger locator form when they arrive in the country. I can tell the noble Lord that, to date, 4,154 cases of failure to fill in the PLF have been referred to the police. Fines have also been issued to people who failed to self-isolate. Slightly more seriously, and it should be recognised by all those who have attempted not to self-isolate, one could get a criminal record if one does not self-isolate. I suspect that that simply is not worth it.

I turn now to airport testing, which is incredibly important. If we can reduce the 14-day self-isolation period, using any means possible, it would be in everybody’s interests that we do so. I assure the House that this is under active consideration by the Government. PHE is looking at the evidence and emerging data, and this is developing over time. The first pass through airport testing showed that the capture rate for asymptomatic testing at airports on arrival was just 7%. That is barely worth doing. There are other things that we could do but we must reassure ourselves first that they will be robust and will enable us to both reduce the time in self-isolation and protect our loved ones from people who may be at a higher risk of having coronavirus.

The noble Lord also mentioned the differences between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations. I have said before at the Dispatch Box that health policy is devolved. It is disappointing when there are differences, but we must reflect and respect the agreements reached for the devolved nations. They are perfectly capable of reaching their own conclusions, albeit sometimes on the same set of data. This also demonstrates how subjective some of the data, and its interpretation, is. Therefore, it is not the case that there can be hard targets for countries to be in or out of an international travel corridor.

I turn now to the impact on aviation. As a former Aviation Minister, I am well aware of the impact on aviation. To date, the sector has used a large amount of the support that the Government have already put in place. For example, the sector has used £1.8 billion from the Bank of England’s CCFF scheme, £283 million from the job retention scheme, and 56,400 staff were furloughed over time. The department is actively discussing what aviation recovery looks like and what additional regulatory or financial help can be put in place. It is a picture that is moving over time. There is a spending review coming up, which will be an opportunity to look at all sorts of different interventions, if they are deemed appropriate.

Over the summer, having had to cancel two holidays and rebook them, I found that the airlines are adapting. It gives people much more confidence to travel if they have the flexibility to cancel a flight and rebook it. Certainly, with the two airlines I dealt with, both things happened relatively easily. I am really pleased to see that the travel market is beginning to respond to the new world. The number of flights is currently down by about 60%, and loads are at around 65%. There is a long way to go to full recovery, but we are not still in those dark days where there were almost no planes in our sky.

I turn to additional questions raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about the travel advice. The FCDO advice will align from now on with the international travel corridors. I recognise that there was time when there was a misalignment. That was not helpful, particularly as they were announced at slightly different times. I think the Government learned from that and we will make sure that we align from now on, if we possibly can.

The noble Baroness also mentioned the timing of the announcements. To a certain extent we have previously been lulled into a false sense of security of “Oh, it’s Thursday. Let’s look out for the tweet from the Secretary of State and then we’ll know what’s going to happen the following weekend”, yet this week we saw something different. The timing of announcements will vary, and we must not think that they are on a weekly basis in all cases. My message to all travellers is they must accept that nowadays travelling is not without risk. If one cannot take the risk of being forced to quarantine on return, it is perhaps better to stay in the UK for holidays for the time being. There is also the argument that the travel industry is doing whatever it can to help. There is a balance to be reached. Passengers must have their eyes open and fully understand the risk that travel advice may change at any time.

I go back to the intention of the Statement. It is good that we have been able to isolate islands and we will focus very much by prioritising work on the islands to which UK citizens most frequently travel, because clearly there are a number of islands that people are very keen to get back to soon.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, we now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers are brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers. The noble Lord, Lord Lilley, was not present for the start of this item of business so I call the noble Lord, Lord Singh of Wimbledon.

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[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I explained previously on the subject of support for the aviation sector, the Government are very cognisant of the impact on the sector. Historically, it has been a key contributor to our economic health and is good for our social well-being and for connectivity within our nation. The Government are doing a huge amount to look at connectivity within the four nations and between the different regions of the UK and beyond. We will work with the aviation sector as it develops new ways of working to make sure that we can capitalise on the economic recovery when it comes.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

Short questions will enable more noble Lords to be called in this session. I call the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, international travel is a great thing. We should encourage it, at least in normal times and with proper respect for the environment. However, at this time, we must think not only of those who are able to and those who do not travel abroad but of all those within these islands. They must be protected from infections coming from abroad. There must be testing at airports. If 77% are reliable, that is far from being enough. There must be second testing. Testing is vital. It needs to be at airports worldwide, and we should lead this initiative. I ask the Minister to take this forward.

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[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Responsibility for maintaining social distancing rests in the hands of the individual. We ask individuals to socially distance from each other, and I am sorry that my noble friend had that experience at Terminal 5. I did not have that experience at that terminal; I had a very smooth and clear journey through it. We are working with the airports to increase signage and to make sure that there is adequate communication telling people exactly what they should do. However, social distancing is now not a new thing for any of us, whether we are in an airport, on a bus or in a shop.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, has withdrawn. I call the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I have given the Minister notice of my question. If a person has knowingly contracted coronavirus while travelling overseas and, on return to the United Kingdom, breaches penalty-enforceable quarantine requirements—which we learn today could lead to a criminal record—and then transmits the disease to another person by leaving the place of confinement, could the person infected sue the communicator of the disease for damages? I have in mind the debate now going on in Florida, in the United States of America.

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[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I believe that I have mentioned airport testing a few times, so I will probably not rehearse that. However, the noble Lord raises an interesting point about the Maldives. There are four principles behind inclusion or otherwise of an island on the list. There have to be clear boundaries—that is, it has to be an island. The data available has to be robust, reliable and internationally comparable. The important point for the noble Lord is that there have to be direct flights or flights via a quarantine-exempt place. Therefore, if one is travelling from another island to Malé—on a boat perhaps—that might not be quarantine-exempt, and therefore the other outlying islands would not be exempt. For completeness, the fourth principle is that the FCDO travel advice should align.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

With apologies to the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, the time is up.

Public Transport: Social Distancing

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]]

The noble Lord is quite right that healthcare measures are devolved to the devolved Administrations. That is why we are in constant contact with them. However, they will make their own decisions when it comes to healthcare measures. Passengers will need to be aware as they travel from one nation to another of the need to comply with local healthcare measures.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I remind the House of my railway interests as declared in the register. The emergency measures agreements that the Government put in place in March with the railway franchisees have worked remarkably well, and the public have heeded the message not to travel, but, very soon, the railways will need to get their passengers back. Will the Minister support the call by Andrew Haines, chief executive of Network Rail, for a cross-industry marketing campaign similar to that now under way in France to encourage people again to travel by train? Will she endorse the industry’s safer travel message, which has at its heart the wearing of face coverings unless exempt?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that at some stage in the future, as we look at the demand for public transport, we will need to make sure that we use the capacity that we have available. We are looking at our communications messages and how they will extend into the summer—something along the lines of “having a safer summer”. We are working closely with the train operating companies and bus operators on how we take forward those messages, but they must all say the same thing.

Transport Infrastructure

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Faulkner of Worcester

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for his local question about Lincoln. I do not have statistics to hand about our roads investment in Lincoln. I am fairly sure there will be something, and I will write to him.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for the letter of 4 February that she wrote to all Peers who took part in the debate on 23 January. I certainly found it very helpful and encouraging, although not all her noble friends did. I will raise a question that was touched on by her noble friend Lord Haselhurst. The Minister says that, if the project goes ahead, HS2 will create a long-term carbon alternative to domestic flights or driving, and that HS2 can play a key role in achieving the transition to carbon net zero by 2050—something that I wish the Green Party would occasionally take seriously. The Prime Minister’s Statement says that:

“Passengers arriving at Birmingham Airport will be able to get to central London by train in 38 minutes, which compares favourably with the time it takes to get from Heathrow by taxi”.


Presumably we are not now going to have a third runway.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, the third runway at Heathrow is a private development. If it falls within the criteria of the airports national policy statement, it will go ahead.