Consumer Rights Bill
Debate between Baroness Thornton and Baroness Jolly
Baroness Jolly
The noble Lord, Lord Deben, says that this is a tricky issue and he is clearly right. One of the tricky bits of this amendment is that many aspects of internet behaviour can be fitted under these amendments. The ones in my comments relate to those of the noble Lord, Lord Best, in which people using voice over internet protocol have been wrongly charged for it. Nobody wants to see that situation but I question whether there is a need to change the law to tackle such behaviour as we have good and robust protections in place for consumers.
I also understand that companies which block services such as Skype no longer offer packages that do so, except on legacy tariffs, so these terms and conditions should not apply. I also understand that the regulator Ofcom has been in dialogue with the providers, and that there is a commitment to review the wording in their terms and conditions to ensure that these are not misinterpreted in this way.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about the assessment of the two-tier internet. The Government’s intention is to ensure an open, secure and safe internet. Where some services are blocked, we want to see transparency. However, our experience is that competition is working. The proposals in the US are informed by the US market. The UK’s market is very different, so we watch with interest to see what the FCC will do.
More broadly, the Government and industry through the Broadband Stakeholder Group have done a great deal of work together to ensure that there is greater transparency. For example, two industry codes of practice have now been developed. This, coupled with the UK’s highly competitive telecoms market, has been very successful in ensuring that there is no consumer detriment caused by traffic management problems.
I hope that this gives some reassurance to noble Lords proposing the amendments. However, given their wide applicability, it makes an awful lot of sense to convene a meeting on this issue with interested parties before Report. Therefore, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Thornton
I thank the Minister and the noble Lords, Lord Deben and Lord Best, for their remarks.
I was getting quite cross until I heard the Minister read out her last paragraph, as I thought that her remarks showed a level of complacency which I do not think is justified. As the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said, this is a complex area. I would certainly like to take the Minister up on her offer of discussions before the next stage of the Bill. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Female Genital Mutilation
Debate between Baroness Thornton and Baroness Jolly
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, I think we all know that what we really need is a successful prosecution for FGM. On a different point, have the Government considered conducting a national confidential inquiry into patient outcomes on female genital mutilation? They could do a survey across the NHS, which might help to give a clearer picture. Is the noble Baroness prepared to talk to her friends in the department to see whether that is a possibility?
Baroness Jolly
My Lords, I think that everyone agrees that a prosecution is long overdue. We are told that there are prosecutions in the pipeline. Certainly, I am more than happy to take the noble Baroness’s suggestion back to the Department of Health.
Health and Social Care Bill
Debate between Baroness Thornton and Baroness Jolly(12 years, 11 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Jolly
My Lords, I wish to add something on Clause 51 stand part. I am sorry that it is not where we expected it, but that is absolutely fine. We are in a place of unintended consequences, because without a PCT there is no home for this particular service. Also, post-Shipman, there is a need for sharpening up clinical governance on death certificates. Therefore, there is no disagreement with any of that, but the unintended consequence is that local authorities have a serious problem in that, as I understand it, funeral directors no longer wish to be a part of the mix, so local authorities are being tasked with implementing a system in which something will have to be collected—somewhere in the order of £150 per certificate to cover the costs. The call for the system to be set up came in 2009; the previous Labour Government asked us to look at regularising the system of certification of deaths not only for cremations but for burials. It was to be revenue-neutral, which poses another problem for the local authorities.
The timing of this for somebody who is bereaved is really difficult. If you lose somebody, you can neither bury them nor have them cremated without the death certificate. Being charged something in the region of £150 could be really awkward, difficult or maybe even impossible. If they paid into an insurance plan, it will not have paid out; after a few days, probate is just not in the right place at all. I would like the Minister to consider two things. First, the cost is anticipated to be somewhere between £40 million and £60 million. I cannot think of anything else on which the taxpayer actually pays for the collection of government data. I would like the Government to consider whether it is appropriate to pass on these fees when certificates for births, marriages and deaths are currently less than £20. Secondly, failing that, would my noble friend commit to working with the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Ministry of Justice to devise a sensitive system that does not call for a sizable payment up front on collection of the death certificate? They should pay attention to the pilot data alluded to by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay; the pilots are not running absolutely smoothly.
Baroness Thornton
My Lords, what links the two parts of this debate are the unintended consequences and the need for second and third thoughts about things. My noble friend Lord Patel, the noble Lord, Lord Adebowale, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, expressed concern about this clause. That is frankly good enough for me. It has been suggested elsewhere in the way of things that some enthusiastic civil servants, in the process of tidying up this Bill, have actually brought about what could be serious unintended consequences. The noble Baronesses, Lady Murphy and Lady Barker, also have some important points to make about the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. This House spent many hours constructing the architecture through the Mental Capacity Act and the Mental Health Acts, not all of it right. I do, however, remember the duty of co-operation being an important part of those Acts; those rights, protections and duties are very important and we need to check that we have not damaged them through the construct of this Bill.
On Clause 51 stand part, we on these Benches are pleased to support the important amendment put down by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, about the problems that might occur when the responsibilities of primary care trusts for the certification of deaths are transferred to local authorities. I do not intend to read out the whole of this note because the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, has referred to most of it, but we are very concerned that these proposals will mean delay and an increase in cost when people are at their most vulnerable and least able to withstand that. I do not think that anybody in this House would want that to happen. I suspect that the Government would not want to place in jeopardy the trust and confidence in the system as it is, and I think there is a danger that Clause 51 does that. We on these Benches support the amendments in this group.
Health and Social Care Bill
Debate between Baroness Thornton and Baroness Jolly(13 years ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Jolly
My Lords, given the hour, I shall be brief. I understand exactly why the noble Baroness, Lady Gibson, has tabled the amendment. I come from the south-west and my GP practice is 25 miles from where I live. The hospitals are 25 or 50 miles away. The noble Baroness and I share that sort of background. The amendment would work in the south-west, the north-west, the north-east, or even north-east Lincolnshire. We have factors of distance, sparsity and rural poverty which are often hidden in poorly measurable clusters.
Before I came here I had a view about policy and legislation being made in a bubble in the south-east and being very metropolitan-based. I had hoped that when I arrived here I would find to the contrary, but I confess that I have not. For a while I was linked with a Defra team and corresponded with a Defra Minister about rural-proofing legislation. It is fair to say that he was not hugely optimistic, but someone really needs to say, “Would it work in a rural area?”. My noble friend Lord Greaves has already started this job on the Bill and has tabled an amendment—and I fear there may be more—about district councils. They play a hugely vital part in areas of rural England that have not become unitary authorities. In one or two areas of the Bill—perhaps in a few more—there are instances where district councils need to be factored in.
Perhaps the Government should have some sort of rural policy champion—I hesitate to use the word tsar. I should be grateful if the noble Earl would give us his assurance that that will happen for this Bill.
Baroness Thornton
My Lords, my noble friend Lady Gibson is to be congratulated. I particularly indentify with her remarks about dispensing chemists. As she knows, I supported her on this when I was on the other side of the House, and the issue is close to my heart. She and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, have raised a very valid issue and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s remarks.