Covid-19

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for actually reading the Statement today and for updating the House on the latest JCVI recommendations. I have to question the last statement that the Minister made. When you have nearly 40,000 infections, as we have today, I wonder if we are one step ahead of the infection or not.

We still see people who are keen to come forward to receive their booster dose but who are still experiencing difficulties in getting it. Does the Minister have an age breakdown by region? I repeat a question that I asked last week. What are the Government doing to fix the ongoing problems with the stalling of the vaccination programme? It is obviously exactly right to accept the JCVI recommendations about extending the programme, but my questions are about how effective we are being in delivering that. Not only is there some confusion about the booster vaccinations, we have also seen some stalling in giving the second dose. There are areas of the country where the second dose vaccine rates are as low as 52%—which is what they are in Westminster.

While we welcome the JCVI decisions to extend Covid booster vaccinations to those aged between 40 and 49, and second doses to 16 and 17 year-olds, there is still a large challenge. As I say, infection rates remain high. Today’s figures show 39,705 cases. Can the Minister give the demography of those being hospitalised and whether this is changing? Can he inform the House, either tonight or by letter, the demography of patients admitted to hospital with Covid—their age, vaccination status and the gravity of their illness? Do we yet know the incidence of genome sequences of the new cases and what has been learned about this?

The Government’s commitment was for all children to be offered a jab by half-term, yet only a third of children have been vaccinated. That means we are quite a long way behind. When does the Minister believe we might catch up? When will all the children who should be vaccinated at least have had their first jab, if not their second?

Last week, the Secretary of State said that he could not rule out the policy of over-65s being banned from all public places if they have not had their third jab, as they have been in France. He said, “We’re not looking at it yet but I can’t rule it out.” Can the Minister confirm whether the Government are considering locking down pensioners who cannot show proof of a booster on an iPhone?

The Minister would expect me to raise the issue of the terrible pressure on our NHS. Today we heard from ambulance chiefs about 160,000 patients coming to harm every year because ambulances are backed up outside hospitals. Thousands of patients will suffer terrible harm. All 10 ambulance trusts are on high alert. We know that NHS staff are stretched and tired, and that there are not enough of them. We know that one in five beds is occupied by an older person who should be discharged and who needs care, but because of the crisis in social care, both domiciliary and in care homes, there is nowhere for many of them to go and no one to look after them.

I am sure the Minister will tell the House about the extra expenditure and the tax rise, but the truth is that the Secretary of State failed to secure a new funding settlement for long-term recruitment and training in the Budget, so how will we recruit the extra staff the NHS needs? The noble Lord’s boss failed to secure the investment needed to fix social care in the Budget. Public health failed to get serious attention in the Budget. We are at the beginning of the winter period and it looks bleak, so what is the plan to get the NHS through this winter without compromising patient care?

I have another few matters to raise. Why does the NHS app still not recognise booster jabs? Apparently, the Prime Minister said at a press conference earlier that this would happen, but he did not say when. Does the Minister have any further information about that?

Indeed, on border controls, Ministers insist that vaccinations are the UK’s main line of defence, but the Conservative Party chair, Oliver Dowden, said this morning that the situation was being kept under review, with alarm over a spike in cases on the continent. As we have seen, Austria has imposed a draconian new lockdown on unvaccinated people after a dramatic increase in infections, and Germany, France and Italy are seeing a significant uptick in outbreaks. Do the Government have a contingency plan for travel restrictions given the fears of a rising fourth wave in Europe?

Finally, and shockingly, we learned today that Covid rates in Parliament were four times the London average in October. Does the Minister believe that this relates to the time when many Conservative Members, particularly in the Commons, were shunning wearing masks and presumably allowing their staff to do the same? I understand that a team from his own department turned up at a Standing Committee without masks a few weeks ago and had to be supplied with them by the clerk of that committee. This smacks of arrogant leadership, led by the Prime Minister last week on his hospital visit. Unfortunately, it is not only unattractive arrogance but dangerous, because it will cost lives.

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. At this afternoon’s No. 10 press conference, Professor Chris Whitty made it very clear that doctors and scientists are increasingly concerned about the average of 37,500 cases over the last week and the high number of Covid cases in hospitals. Professor Whitty said that it would be a tough winter and added that, in addition to the nearly 9,000 Covid patients in hospital, all other areas of the NHS are under growing and intense pressure. He recommended that, in addition to getting their vaccinations, everyone should use face masks and ventilation to help reduce the number of cases.

This morning, Oliver Dowden, who was just referred to, said “It is in our hands” whether further restrictions in plan B are put in place this winter, but clearly the Government’s current communications on just encouraging using face masks and ventilation indoors and on transport are simply not cutting through. It certainly was not on my Tube journey in today, where distressingly few people were wearing a mask. Even if the Government do not want to implement the whole of their plan B, why will they not at least mandate face masks and improving ventilation on public transport and indoors when so many people across the spectrum are crying out for this to happen?

Leaving it to individual choice and personal responsibility is far too weak and inconsistent a message. It is crystal clear that the Prime Minister does not want to implement plan B, but is the reality not that he is far more likely to have to do so—or, indeed, move straight to plan C, a total lockdown—if mask-wearing is not made mandatory immediately? Does the Minister agree with me, and the point just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that all parliamentarians and most particularly Ministers have a duty to set a clear example of mask wearing inside and on public transport?

Professor Whitty highlighted the stark figure that 98% of pregnant women admitted to hospital had not been vaccinated, and that same ratio applied to those in intensive care. What specific steps are the Government and the NHS taking to talk directly to pregnant women to encourage them to have their vaccinations?

It was worrying this afternoon when the Prime Minister said that he “hoped” that booster and third jabs could be logged on the online system “soon”. We have been asking questions about this system for weeks now. Can the Minister look into Pinnacle, one of the systems that logs people’s Covid status, to find out why practitioners are not yet able to record a third jab for the clinically extremely vulnerable, as well as a separate listing for booster jabs for everyone else over 40? As the Prime Minister said this afternoon, evidence of booster jabs will be required for travel this Christmas, but because third vaccinations and booster doses are still not appearing separately on the NHS Covid app, there is a great deal of anxiety and frustration among people who will need not only to have had the jabs but to be able to provide the evidence. Can the Minister say—I underline the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton—when all third doses and boosters will be on the online system?

Finally, although I welcome the announcement that it is safe for 16 and 17 year-olds to receive a second dose, can the Minister explain where 16 and 17 year-olds will be able to get that second dose? Too often, young people wishing to have their initial jab were put off because they had to travel to a centre some way away, often by bus, train or car, often involving parents providing the transport. Will the Minister undertake to look into ensuring that there are centres in town centres and other easily accessible places so that young people can more easily access their second dose?

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the Statement, which largely concerns the matter which we discussed on Monday—making vaccination mandatory for patient-facing NHS staff. I need here to declare an interest as a non-executive director of a local trust.

We know that vaccination saves lives and that it is the best protection against this deadly disease. It helps to cut transmission. We, of course, want to see NHS staff vaccinated. But have the Government considered and taken account of the fact that the NHS is already under the most intense pressure this winter? Waiting lists are close to 6 million, there are already more than 90,000 vacancies across the NHS, and in his Budget the Chancellor failed to allocate funding for training budgets to train the medics we need for the future.

There will be anxiety at local trust level. However laudable the principle, it could exacerbate some of these chronic understaffing problems. We simply cannot afford to lose thousands of NHS staff overnight. Indeed, I spent this morning, as a non-executive of my local trust, discussing risk and its mitigation. Without doubt, the highest risk facing the whole of the NHS is staff shortage.

It was clear that the mandatory vaccine for care home workers covered all staff. These are predominantly in the private sector. Does this new mandate for vaccination apply also to all patient-facing staff, whether they work in the NHS or for private providers?

It is important that the Government have listened to representations from organisations such as NHS Providers, the NHS Confederation and others about delaying the implementation of this until after the winter. We welcome that. I urge the Secretary of State and the Minister to resist the blandishments of the former Secretary of State to bring forward any deadlines. However, have the Government consulted the British Medical Association, relevant trade unions and the royal colleges, which have raised concerns about the practicalities of implementing this policy? It seems to me that there needs to be a push right across the piece.

Will the Minister outline to the House what success looks like for this policy? Some of the 10% of NHS staff who are not vaccinated include those with medical exemptions, those who are on long-term sick and those who could not get the vaccine first time round because they were ill with Covid. Can the Minister tell the House the actual number of NHS staff who should be vaccinated but have not had the vaccine? In other words, when does he consider there to be success? Does full vaccination across the NHS look like 94%, 95% or 96%? What are we aiming for here? What is the target?

The aim of this policy is presumably to limit those with Covid coming into contact with patients, but one can still catch and transmit Covid post vaccine, so will the testing regime that is already in place for NHS staff—I think it is about twice a week at the moment— increase in frequency? Furthermore, will the thousands of visitors who go on to the NHS estate every week be asked whether they have had a vaccine or have proof of a negative test?

What analysis have the Government done of those who are vaccine hesitant in the NHS workforce? What targeted support has been put in place to persuade take-up among those groups? We know that in trusts where take-up is around 80%, specific support has been put in place—I know it has been in my own trust. But we know from society more generally that there has been hesitancy, for example, among women who are pregnant and those who want to have a baby. That means, sadly, that a significant proportion of those in hospital with Covid are unvaccinated pregnant women and, indeed, some of them have died. So, for example, will there be a dedicated phone line to give clear advice to women and their partners who might have concerns?

Today on the BBC “Today” programme, the Secretary of State spoke about the impact assessment for the mandatory vaccination of care home staff. We have been asking the Minister for this information to be brought to the House. We have done that many times. When will the impact information be available to Parliament?

Finally, on vaccination more generally, Leicester has a vaccination rate of 61%, Bradford—where I come from —63%, Bolton 69%, and Bury 71%. Generally, on children’s vaccinations, we seem to be stuck at 28%. On boosters, there are still around 6 million people eligible for a booster who have not yet had one. The Government’s own analysis shows that people over 70 who are dying from Covid or hospitalised should have had a booster, but many have had only two jabs.

With Christmas coming, which will mean more mixing indoors at a time when infection rates are high—with one in 50 having Covid—we are facing six crucial weeks. What more support will the Government offer now to local communities, such as those I have named, to drive up vaccination rates? Nobody wants to see either local or national lockdowns again.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I also thank the Minister for repeating this Statement. Covid-19 Statements are now taking on the role of London buses—large gaps for a while and then suddenly two in one week on vaccines. It feels as though arguments were going on behind the scenes for such a quick second vaccine Statement to be repeated in less than two or three working days.

Like the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, my honourable friend Daisy Cooper MP asked yesterday about the publication of the long-awaited impact statement —Making Vaccination a Condition of Deployment in Health and the Wider Social Care Sector—that this Statement refers to. It would have been helpful for MPs to have had sight of it at the same time as the Statement. As the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said, frankly we needed to see it a long time ago, given that the social care deadline starts tomorrow. It was finally published overnight, and I have some questions on it for the Minister.

The Statement announces that all NHS and social care staff will have to have to be fully vaccinated by 1 April 2022. The deadline for care home staff remains tomorrow. The predicted numbers on page 4 of the impact statement are pretty staggering—up to 126,000 staff, of whom 73,000 are expected to be NHS staff. Page 6 of the impact statement also says that the modelling cost of replacing unvaccinated workers is between £162 million and £379 million. That is also staggering, given the financial pressures and backlog of cases across a health and social care sector that at the moment is still struggling with the pandemic.

From these Benches we really want to see staff vaccinated but would prefer that it is voluntary and remain concerned about the consequences of tomorrow’s care homes deadline. Page 6 of the impact statement published overnight talks about the disruption to health and care services. But for social care that disruption has already started. Many care home staff have already left or this week are being fired, with a good number moving to the NHS and to retail and hospitality roles.

Large homes are reporting closing down wings of beds due to lack of staff and some smaller homes are handing back state-funded patients to local authorities. Both the Statement and the impact statement are silent on how patients will be looked after before we even get to the consequences of social care homes without beds.

So can I ask the Minister what emergency plans there are to help areas? By the way, answers that say “It’s down to local authorities” are not helpful. This is a crisis created, at least in part, by mandatory vaccines, and there are no staff or beds that can just magically appear. Or is what Sajid Javid said at the Conservative Party conference the reality: namely, that families will be expected to step up to the plate to look after their loved ones in the absence of care home beds? If so, it would be good to see Ministers’ planning for that and the consequent problems for the workforce.

The Statement says that other parts of the social care system—for example, domiciliary care—that were excluded from the original care decision will now be included, but neither the Statement nor the impact statement is clear about the deadline for those in the social care system now being drawn into mandatory vaccination. Can the Minister say what the deadline is for these new groupings? It surely cannot be that the deadline for domiciliary workers is this week. Is this just for full-time staff employed by the care sector, or will others offering regular services such as activities in care homes or subcontractors working in hospitals now be included? There are staff working as sub- contractors for the NHS who have front-line access to patients; for example, delivering meals. Are they included or excluded?

The table on page 4 of the impact statement lists the total number of staff in each sector exempt from vaccination. I cannot find anywhere the criteria for exemption. Can the Minister please tell the House what those criteria are?

I have now asked the Minister at least twice in the past fortnight about the online vaccination form which sits behind the GP records and the app. How many of those who were vaccinated overseas and those who took part in clinical trials are now on the records system? Has it increased from the 53 people that he talked about last week, and are the arrangements for logging third doses for the severely clinically extremely vulnerable, as distinct from the booster doses for everyone over 50 and health staff, now sorted out? I am still getting reports that they are not.

Finally, there has been considerable concern that the Prime Minister was not wearing a face mask at Hexham hospital yesterday, against all NHS advice. This morning, Dr David Nabarro, the World Health Organization’s special envoy for Covid-19, said on Sky News:

“I’m not sitting on the fence on this one … Where you’ve got large amounts of virus being transmitted, everybody should do everything to avoid … getting the virus or inadvertently passing it on. We know that wearing a face mask reduces the risk. We know that maintaining physical distance reduces the risk. We know that hygiene by regular hand washing and coughing into your elbow reduces the risk. We should do it all, and we should not rely on any one intervention like vaccination on its own. So … please, would every leader be wearing face masks, particularly when in indoor settings? … This virus is unforgiving, and we need to do everything possible to prevent it getting in between us and infecting us.”


Can the Minister explain why the Prime Minister was not wearing a face mask, in breach of Hexham hospital’s rules, and will he pass on those words from Dr Nabarro to No. 10 Downing Street?

Gametes and Embryos: Storage Limit

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his work on the subject when he was the responsible Minister to help change the policy so that all people, regardless of medical need, may benefit from greater choice about when to start their family. The 10-year renewal periods will be put in place to give people the opportunity to decide whether they wish to continue with their storage of gametes or embryos. The department is currently working with the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority to set out the plans for detailed implementation, including on how the renewal periods should be handled by fertility clinics to ensure that they work.

Fertility clinics will be expected to contact people storing their gametes or embryos a year before a renewal period has ended, so there would be 12 months’ notice. In addition, people will have a six-month grace period following the expiry of any renewal period, in which they can get in touch with clinics to re-engage storage if they wish. I am sorry that I am going on longer than usual, but this is an important issue. It is our view that we would provide an appropriate amount of time for clinics to contact their patients, and for patients to decide what they wish to do with their gametes or embryos in storage.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, because we need some clarity here. For some people, months count. They will be having their eggs destroyed now, in the next few months. Therefore, while I congratulate the Government on the regulations that added two years to the 10-year period in recognition of the need to provide an extension during the pandemic, the Minister needs to be absolutely clear because time is fast running out. Are the Government going to provide interim transitional arrangements before the legislation is before the House? From these Benches, we are very keen and across the House there is an enormous amount of support for this to happen. Frankly, if the Minister brings forward the regulations tomorrow, they will go through.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that very kind offer, but we have already stated that it is the Government’s intention that no one misses out on the opportunity to extend the storage of their eggs, sperm or embryos. As she will be aware, in 2020 in light of the Covid pandemic, we took steps to extend the storage. We are currently considering options to make sure that no one misses out on the benefits of the new policy. Given the detailed consultation we have just been through, we hope to announce details in due course. Of course, if an amendment is laid to the forthcoming Health and Care Bill, we will consider it.

Cancer Drugs: Licensing and Approval

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. It is important that NICE, MHRA and others hear some of the concerns, and the fact that we are being held to account today shows how important this is. Unfortunately, some existing legislation restricts MHRA’s ability to share information with partners, including NICE, which would help them to plan their processes more efficiently. NICE, MHRA, NHS England and NHS Improvement are talking about the concerns raised by noble Lords and generally about delays in the process. They are talking about how they can improve access, including through initiatives such as the Innovative Licensing and Access Pathway launched in January 2021, and sharing as much information as they can upfront. Both MHRA and NICE are aware of the concerns and made that clear when I met them recently after their board-to-board meeting.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I will follow up on questions that noble Lords have already asked. The ongoing NICE methods and processes review missed the opportunity to propose a new process to mirror accelerated regulatory processes. There are concerns that capacity constraints will limit NICE’s ability to publish decisions as close to marketing authorisation as possible, including for oncology drugs, through the new Project Orbis route, as has been the case with the secondary breast cancer drug, Trodelvy. Have the Government assessed whether the system is fit for purpose in achieving the objective which the noble Lord has articulated: to deliver quick patient access to new, clinically effective treatments? What concrete steps have been taken so far to address any concerns?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Both NICE and MHRA are aware of the concerns, particularly regarding the delay between approval and licensing. That is why they are having conversations with NHS England and NHS Improvement to make sure, as far as possible, that they can discuss co-operation to ensure the speedy approval of drugs.

Covid-19 Vaccinations

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I start by thanking the Minister for taking the Statement. I very much welcome the new antiviral, molnupiravir—another name we all have to learn—as a significant drug in our armoury in the fight against Covid. I think this might be my and the Minister’s first Covid Statement since he was appointed, though we have done several Questions. I thought it might be useful to remember the last 18 months for a moment, when his predecessor and the House dealt with, on average, two Statements and several Questions about Covid a week.

Let us be quite clear: the NHS and social care services have saved the country, and they continue to do so as we move into winter. I again place on record my gratitude from these Benches to the NHS, social care services and all the staff from the top to the bottom of our health service who have worked so hard to save lives, protect the vulnerable and roll out vaccines. But we should remind ourselves that 142,000 people have died from Covid in the UK so far, and 1,173 died last week. We have the highest, or one of the highest, infection rates in Europe. This is not over by a long way, and we are now moving into the winter. Frankly, one has to question whether the Government have a handle on Covid going into the busiest season for our NHS.

The Government must get a grip on the stalling vaccination programme. The Health Secretary, Sajid Javid, is calling on younger relatives to help their eligible parents and grandparents take up the offer of the booster and the flu vaccine. Older and vulnerable people have been urged to get their Covid-19 booster jabs as part of a “national mission” to help avoid a return to Covid restrictions over Christmas. The Health Secretary said:

“If we all come together and play our part”,


the country can

“avoid a return to restrictions, and enjoy Christmas.”

That is a bit late, and it is absolutely in line with this Government’s handling of the pandemic—about two to three weeks later than they need to be. It is a bit rich for the Secretary of State to line up who is to blame if we do need further restrictions at Christmas because the Government have failed to get everyone vaccinated who needs to be.

I ask the Minister specifically about immuno- compromised patients. In September, the JCVI recommended that severely immunosuppressed patients have a third primary dose prior to having their booster jab to maximise their protection. There has been a lack of clarity about whether and when this would happen, which has caused huge confusion among a very vulnerable group in our communities. It is estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people fall into this category and are entitled to both a third primary jab and a booster. These two things are not interchangeable. Can the Minister tell the House how many of this group have received a third primary jab, and how many are going on to have a booster? How many are missing out on potentially life-saving doses of Covid vaccines after confusion about who is eligible for a third dose followed by an additional booster jab?

The blood cancer charity Myeloma UK said its helpline has been inundated with hundreds of inquiries in recent months from patients who are struggling to book their third and fourth doses. To compound this challenge, patients like this cannot turn up at a walk-in or mass vaccination centre. What plans are there to ensure that the immunosuppressed receive the vaccinations they need?

More generally, local residents are contacting their MPs to say that they cannot get the boosters they so desperately want. One lady in her 70s with an underlying health condition went to her pharmacy and called 119, just to be told that she was not eligible for her booster—but she knew she was. She finally has one booked in December, but she had to rely on her daughter to book the appointment because she does not use the internet. The system simply is not working for many of those who need it most, because they do not have access to the internet or the new technology the Government want them to use to get their boosters.

Turning to care home residents and booster vaccinations, 1 November was the Government’s target for getting care home residents their booster jab. Could the Minister tell the House what proportion of care home residents have been vaccinated so far? My honourable friend Dr Allin-Khan said in the Commons on Thursday that only about a quarter of care home residents in Leicester have had their booster. The former Secretary of State is now calling for all NHS staff to be compulsorily vaccinated. Is this government policy? If so, what is the timetable? Is it wise to force this through right now when the NHS has a vacancy rate of 100,000?

Finally, plan B, which contains measures that we on these Benches already support, such as mask wearing and allowing working from home, is simply not enough on its own. Yes, we support it, but we must turbocharge vaccine boosters, fix sick pay, and improve ventilation. Does the Minister agree?

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, from these Benches, we add our thanks to all those involved in the current delivery of vaccinations, whether they are GPs, nurses, healthcare assistants or volunteers at vaccination centres, and we thank more broadly our NHS and care-sector staff who are still working extremely hard to reduce the backlog of cases while coping with over 9,000 patients currently in hospital with Covid.

The Minister knows that the Delta variant and its subvariant, which is thought to be behind the growth of cases in the west country and Wales, remains highly transmissible. Doctors are reporting daily that double-jabbed patients are catching Covid and passing it on. Why have none of the mitigations in plan B been carried out? Many scientists, including some members of SAGE and Independent SAGE, believe that we should be operating them now to reduce the high numbers of cases and not be faced with a second Christmas being cancelled by the Prime Minister at short notice.

From these Benches, we have asked time and again for the wearing of facemasks inside and on public transport, as well as room ventilation in schools and other public venues, to be mandated, and for social distancing to remain. There are now, on average, 35,000 new cases daily, a shockingly high number. Professor Peter Openshaw, the chair of NERVTAG, said today that it was clear that immunity from the vaccines is waning. Yes, and vaccination is vital, but with cases at this level why are the Government not making mask mandates and social distancing formal?

Today, the Prime Minister once again reminded people to get their jab, whether first, second, third or booster, the ONS data showing that the risk of dying from Covid is 32 times greater in unvaccinated people. Can the Minister tell us why last week it was announced that vaccination centres are now closing at 6pm? Surely it should be easy for people to get vaccinated at a time that works for them, when they leave for work or get home from work?

The last time we spoke about Covid, I asked the Minister what the Government were doing to prevent some of the very unpleasant anti-vaxxer interventions at school gates and outside some vaccine centres. Has any action been taken on their disgraceful leaflets, which deliberately look like an NHS document but are full of direct lies and mistruths? It is important, because, by the Minister’s own numbers in this Statement, only 22% of 12 to 15-year olds have had their vaccination so far. I think Ministers now recognise that cases in this age group are driving cases in the older age groups, which is probably why hospital numbers are going up.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, referred to the muddle between booster and third doses. The pandemic is far from over for immunocompromised and immunosuppressed people. I declare my interest as one of the clinically extremely vulnerable, as I have said before. I discovered by chance, reading something online, that I am now in the third-dose category. My GP did not know it and I certainly did not know it either. That is the problem. GPs and vaccination centres have not been told about the distinction. I have read the NHS guidance on the third dose, but many other clinically extremely vulnerable people are saying that their surgery or vaccination centre does not understand which category they fall into.

This is not helped by the problems with the online form which I asked the Minister about last week. Does the online form now specify the third dose, which is for around 800,000 people, according to current estimates, not for 400,000 people, as the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said, as distinct from the booster, which is for around 20 million? It is important, because the third-dose patients must have a booster in a further few months. If the system is not even recording the third dose, how will it know to call them back?

With the end of the shielding programme on 17 September, Sajid Javid wrote to all those on the patients’ list to inform them that it had finished, that the Government would no longer be offering specific advice and that we should go to our hospital clinicians. But many of us do not have an appointment in the diary, and there is not likely to be one because our clinicians are catching up with the backlog of cases, and those who are specialists in immune diseases are working on the Covid wards as well. So can the Minister say how on earth the clinically extremely vulnerable are meant to know what to do in the meantime?

Will the Minister ensure that the Government will work with patient organisations, clinicians and employer to produce clear and meaningful guidance that promotes safe working practices for this group and, in particular, let employers know that they have to help employees either to work from home or, if they have to go in, to make sure they do not have to go in by train or bus at peak hours? Please will the Government appoint a dedicated national lead to co-ordinate the support and guidance available to people in this group?

The news in the Statement of the approval of the Merck and Ridgeback antiviral Molnupiravir is also good news. I see that just under half a million courses of doses have been ordered. It was good to hear on Saturday of the success of the Pfizer clinical trials elsewhere, but I gather we are some way off from that being approved, because further trials of people who are clinically vulnerable are needed. Can the Minister tell the House the likely timescales of the actual delivery of both these different antivirals?

Finally, I am aware that I have asked some technical questions. If the Minister cannot answer them today, please will he write to me with the answers?

Smoking Cessation: Prescription of E-cigarettes

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, the MHRA in 2017 said that it was going to ensure that,

“the route to medicinal regulation for e-cigarette products is fit for purpose, so that a range of safe and effective products can potentially be made available for NHS prescription.”

Over four years later, it has now just updated the guidance; there are still no products for prescription. The new guidance only says that the MHRA will support companies to get medicinal licences, and it could take another two years before we see people able to access e-cigarettes for prescription. That seems a very long time indeed. I hope that the DHSC will chase up the MHRA and facilitate this to happen more quickly than it is at the moment.

My second point concerns other tobacco products, including Snus and heat-not-burn tobacco products. Will the Minister confirm, for the avoidance of doubt, that the MHRA’s guidance refers only to e-cigarettes, and the Government are not considering other options involving tobacco products?

Covid-19: Vaccinations Administered Abroad

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

One of the difficult issues we face is pushing international partners to agree that the participants of well-regulated vaccine clinical trials should be treated as fully vaccinated. Only a couple of weeks ago I was on a call with G7 health and transport Ministers, trying to push them to ensure that they recognise those very brave people who came forward for vaccine trials. So far, sadly, we have not had much success. We continue to push them, but, in the meantime, we have found the solution of giving people another vaccine in order for them to be recognised. However, we would prefer international recognition.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I think the Minister needs to simplify this for the House—it is a very simple issue. If it is possible to register in France that you have been double vaccinated through its systems, why is it not possible to do that in the UK? While the JCVI may be working to fix the issue for UK residents who have been double jabbed abroad, British entry regulations have left foreign visitors in limbo. So, although two doses of Covid vaccine administered by a UK-approved regulator is enough to enter Britain without having to self-isolate, it does not seem to be enough to avoid being pinged by what has now been exposed as our expensive and not very effective test and trace system. Does the Minister agree that this does not make sense, and can he confirm that the JCVI review will also aim to resolve this?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

As I said, we are looking to resolve as many of these issues as possible. There is no logical reason for this not to happen—it is just that we have to push international acceptance but also make sure that we have gone through the processes, especially for those vaccines not recognised by the MHRA.

NHS England Funding: Announcement to Media

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Tuesday 26th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

The Minister must by now be aware of the chronic staff shortages in the NHS. He will also be aware of the desperate state of some of our buildings in the NHS, and indeed the inadequate facilities for some of our mental health wards. This announcement mentions diagnostic staff, of which already one in 10 are missing. There is a 55% shortage of consultant oncologists, a shortage of radiologists, a shortage of specialist cancer nurses and, so far, no comprehensive NHS staff plan. Could the Minister tell the House who will run the proposed diagnostic centres? Will it be the NHS? Where will the staff for the diagnostic centres, surgical theatres and to operate the new equipment come from?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Since 2010, we have increased the clinical radiology workforce by 48%, from 3,239 to 4,797 full-time equivalent posts. Numbers of diagnostics radiographers are up by 33% since 2010 and therapeutic radiographers are up by 44%. We are offering those who want to join the radiographic workforce at least £5,000 as a non-repayable grant for each year of their training to be a radiographer. Since 2016, we have seen a 26% increase in those studying diagnostic radiography and a 10% increase in those studying therapeutic radiography.

Men’s Health Strategy

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising this important topic. I have to admit that I was not aware of this before it was raised. In looking into it further, I know that the noble Baroness was in contact with the previous Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Innovation on the issue. As the matter rests with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my predecessor, my noble friend Lord Bethell, had followed up with a letter in May this year, outlining the steps that the department is taking regarding toilet facilities, including looking at certain building regulations. The Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has also launched a call for evidence on the provision of male and female toilets. As soon as we have more information, I will write and update the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, suicide is the biggest killer of men under 50 in the UK. This figure, and the high rate among young men in particular, has not changed for decades. Research by the Samaritans shows that affluent middle-aged men seem particularly vulnerable—stigma and unwillingness to ask for support obviously play a part. What specific measures and investment are the Government building into their mental health strategy to address this serious matter?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising this very important issue. We know that men are not a homogenous group, as the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, previously said, but some men are less likely than women to seek help or to talk about suicidal feelings. Others can be reluctant to engage with health and other support services. One of the things we have to do is tackle the stigma associated with this; that has been a key priority for years. That is why we funded the Time to Change campaign to 2020-21; it has played a key role. In addition, we have looked at resources on Every Mind Matters, the mental health hub on the NHS website. We have also issued guidance to local authorities and looked at how we can target the high-risk groups such as men.

Ageing: Science, Technology and Healthy Living (Science and Technology Committee Report)

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I do not think you need to be old. I have one of those magic hobs myself.

Almost every noble Lord here today can declare an interest in this debate, because we all—possibly excepting the Minister, who is quite a youngster in this Room—have a direct, personal interest in the recommendations and actions arising from this important report, presented by the noble Lord, Lord Patel. I join in the congratulations and applause directed at the noble Lord, who chaired this investigation, and his committee, many members of which have spoken today. They must have worked hard, in unusual and challenging circumstances, to produce this excellent report. I add my congratulations to all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate, and thank the Library and many other organisations for the briefing provided.

The challenge, of course, is what happens next; it always is. It is ensuring that change and progress results from the committee’s labours and deliberation. The Minister’s job today is of course to convince us that these many excellent recommendations will not be consigned to the long grass or worse, because of the blandness—in the word of the noble Lord, Lord Crisp—of the Government’s response.

I was impressed by two things about this report in particular: first, that it linked the socioeconomic factors with the scientific ones; and, secondly, that its clear recommendations provide a pathway—a route map, as the noble Baroness just mentioned—which, if followed and implemented, would lead to significant improvement in the lives of many of our fellow ageing citizens. Although there is not much to celebrate about the ongoing pandemic, the timeliness of the committee’s deliberations meant, as the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said in his opening remarks, that it became clear that the old, those suffering from multiple morbidities and the socially deprived would pay the highest penalty as a result of Covid-19, compared with the young and healthy.

This links to the Government recognising in November 2017 that ageing was one of the great challenges of their industrial strategy; in 2018, they announced the ageing society grand challenge. Indeed, the NHS’s long-term plan accepts that the NHS has a key role to play in ensuring that the extra years of life are spent in good health, while research into the effects of Covid on older people’s lives recognises, as do organisations such as Age UK, that we have a major challenge. Now, we have the Government’s commitment to levelling up, which of course includes looking at the inequalities in our ageing population and the huge differences in life expectancy in different and sometimes neighbouring communities, to which many noble Lords referred.

A combination of all those things suggests, therefore, that this report and its recommendations provide the Minister and his colleagues with a huge and important agenda. Many noble Lords have made those links; this report does the same. My noble friends Lord Browne and Lord Hanworth, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, all addressed this issue.

The Government have said that addressing health inequalities will be at the core of their levelling-up agenda, and the Prime Minister has acknowledged that healthy life expectancy needs to improve. However, as yet, there is no sign of meaningful action or investment to make this a reality. The current plans appear partial and fragmented, while many deprived areas where people are likely to have the poorest health have not yet been identified as priorities for investment. I suspect that my noble friend Lord Davies could give the Government a hint or two on the methodologies that they might use.

In her excellent book, The Age of Ageing Better? A Manifesto for our Future, Dr Anna Dixon says:

“Few of us think of ourselves as old, whether we’re 60, 70 or 80.”


We are privileged here because age discrimination does not really feature in your Lordships’ House. When we hear of an ageing society, we are not experiencing care homes full of people staring at a TV screen. We are generally not bed-blockers, nor do we generally suffer from the loneliness described by this report. In fact, we think of our fellow Peers with value. We think of them bringing wisdom, enlightenment, humour and commitment to the work that we undertake in this place, even at some very great ages.

Yet we are all ageing, of course. It is a natural biological process. I think about my own background: my aunts and uncles come from a working-class family in Yorkshire, where the heavy load of working in the building trade and factors such as diet, smoking, drinking and pollution weigh heavily. All of my mother’s 10 siblings died before the average age you would have expected them to live to, and all of them died of heart disease, stroke or lung cancer. Among my contemporaries from school in Yorkshire, I am the only one who still has a full-time job; they have all retired, apart from one farmer. I intend to keep working full-time as I contemplate the future. We need to celebrate the long-term lives that we experience.

People in England can now expect to live far longer than ever before, but these extra years of life are not always spent in good health, as described in this excellent report, with people developing conditions that reduce their independence and quality of life, as my noble friend Lady Young said. I read with great interest the science bits of this report, and I particularly enjoyed the briefing I received from the British Society for Immunology about the report itself. It is worth looking at that brief, which states:

“It is well established that the immune system changes as we get older. The balance between immune activation, regulation and resolution can be altered as we age, resulting in inadequate protection against infection, along with a greater risk of inflammatory disease. As with many aspects of the human body, there is no one ‘cut off’ point for this to occur but instead it is a gradual process.”


However, the Covid-19 pandemic highlighted the relationship between ageing and the progression of our immune systems as a part of our natural life. My noble friend Lord Winston talked about the complexity of ageing. I wish him well with the challenge that he is facing.

I particularly liked recommendation 7:

“We recommend that UK Research and Innovation commit to funding further research into the biological processes underlying ageing as a priority, in particular to address gaps in understanding the relevance of ageing hallmarks to humans. Research to identify accurate biomarkers of ageing in humans should also be prioritised, to support studies to improve health span.”


This is the recommendation that the British Society for Immunology focused on. It makes the point, which other noble Lords have made, that the scientific understanding of the way in which many drugs interact with the immune system in older people is lacking, often because of a dearth of this age demographic in clinical trials. I found the Government’s response to that recommendation particularly weedy. They need to think about the teeth that the MHRA and other bodies need to ensure that clinical trials have the right demographics.

There are 20-odd recommendations in this report and that is the one that I have chosen to highlight, but the Government have to implement a concerted and co-ordinated set of national policy responses to support healthy ageing. That has to include regulatory and fiscal measures encouraging people to adopt healthy lifestyles. The Government have to have a plan. The response that we have had so far is not a plan. There needs to be a plan and a timetable. As the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, said, the Government need to show how serious they are about this matter.