Covid-19: Response

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

Before I ask the questions we need to address, I wish to record the deep sadness felt by me and my colleagues at the death of our friend and comrade, Dr Lord Nic Rea, two days ago. Nic was much loved across the House and gave me unstinting support and health advice over many years.

In March, the medical director for England said that keeping the number of coronavirus deaths below 20,000 would be “a good result” for the UK. Therefore, I start by asking whether the Minister agrees with the Prime Minister when he says that he is proud of our efforts in the UK. They have resulted in an ONS figure of 60,000 excess deaths due to Covid-19, even if at present the Government are admitting to only almost 40,000. The UK has 2% of the world’s population and we have had 13% of the deaths from Covid. I suggest to the noble Lord that some humility is required here. We can be as proud as we all are of our NHS, support staff and all key workers but it seems inappropriate to be proud of leading us to where we are today.

I would like to ask about disparities in the risk and outcomes of Covid-19, as covered in the PHE review, which addressed the unequal nature of the risks of this virus. The review reveals that the virus poses a greater risk to those who are older, male and overweight. The risk is also described as “disproportionate” for those of Asian, Caribbean or black ethnicity. It makes no attempt to explain why the risk to BAME groups might be higher.

Yesterday, the Royal College of Nursing released data that supports PHE’s findings. The survey found that for nursing staff working in high-risk environments, including those working in intensive and critical care units, fewer than half—43%—of respondents from a BAME background said that they had enough eye and face protection equipment. This is in contrast to two-thirds—66%—of white British nursing staff who were content. Has the Minister read this report, and what is his view of its findings?

An earlier draft of the PHE review seems to have included responses from the 1,000-plus organisations and individuals that suggested that discrimination and poorer life chances were playing a part in the increased risk of Covid-19 to those with BAME backgrounds. Why was that section omitted? Why was the report published a week late? Is it true that the omitted part included recommendations like that from the Muslim Council of Britain, which stated:

“With high levels of deaths of BAME healthcare workers, and extensive research showing evidence and feelings of structural racism and discrimination in the NHS, PHE should consider exploring this in more detail, and looking into specific measures to put in place to tackle the culture of discrimination and racism”?


Apparently, these words did not survive contact with Matt Hancock’s office over the weekend. Is that true? Does the Minister agree with the Muslim council that the clear statement about the need to introduce change would surely give greater meaning to the statement by the Secretary of State that “black lives matter”?

Moving on, the Prime Minister assured us that by 1 June we would have a world-class track and trace system. I assume that he was misinformed, as crucial parts of the system do not exist and will be in place only at the end of June, which is what the noble Baroness, Lady Harding, says. Furthermore, the fragmented mess of using private contractors has been a disaster. Some recognition is finally being given to the role of expertise and knowledge at the local level and in local authorities, yet even these local experts were not consulted about the system and seem to be in the dark about just how it is supposed to work—just ask any department of public health how confident they are that we have a world-class system. Surely such a system should have the capacity to turn around tests in 24 hours, and we are nowhere near that point.

Over two weeks ago, I asked the Minister a series of simple questions. Who would call me if I tested positive? If the call is from a call centre, how will I know that it is genuine and to be trusted? The deputy at Public Health England seems to think that we would know through the expert questions that the tracer will ask. Clearly, she has never been on the receiving end of skilled online or telephone fraudsters. This is an important question. If it takes over 24 hours to get the test results and the tracing does not start within 48 hours, surely the system of protection will have broken down by then? Would the information, which is held centrally for some years, go to my GP? It is unclear where that data will be stored and what rules will apply. Can the Minister please explain?

An analysis published by Cancer Research UK has outlined that as many as 2.4 million people in the UK have been affected by a backlog in cancer care, waiting for screening, further tests or treatment. That can change only if the staff doing the cancer care, treatment and testing are being tested very frequently, even those without symptoms.

It is very concerning that the Government are refusing to publish information about the reproduction rate per region, the viability of home test kits, the number of people tested daily, and the number of people contacted under the new contact tracing system, to list a few examples. Furthermore, the data that the Government have published has been decried as highly misleading by the head of the UK Statistics Authority. Will the Minister commit to urgently publishing these figures to ensure openness, transparency and public confidence in the Government’s approach?

Does the Minister share the concerns of scientists, including members of SAGE, and public health leaders that the Government’s NHS Test and Trace system was not yet robust enough to quash any resurgence of the virus and should have been “fully working” before lockdown measures were eased? A final comment on “test, track and trace” is that the Cummings saga was bad enough, but we now have the chairman of the UK Statistics Authority making very robust suggestions that government presentation may not be what it seems. Sir David Norgrove has pulled no punches and makes it abundantly clear that he thinks the presentation of testing numbers in England is unacceptable.

On shielding, it is remarkable that the announcement to lift shielding was made during the night at the weekend. There was no notification to GPs, public health officials or those who most recently had been told to shield until the end of June. Can the Minister please tell us what the scientific justification is for that? Apparently, according to my noble friend Lady Armstrong, department officials met many organisations representing patients with long-term conditions last Thursday. There was no mention then that anything would be lifted on Saturday, even though they discussed experiences of lockdown and talked about the way forward. That suggests to me that it was a politically motivated announcement, without any involvement of the relevant clinicians or patient groups. Can the Minister say which clinical groups had supported the announcement on Saturday evening? What preparations were the NHS able to make before the announcement was made? At the beginning of lockdown, shielded people got daily emails from the NHS about how to behave but, since Saturday, I understand that they have received nothing. I think many may feel abandoned —some are our colleagues in the Commons.

We must not make the same mistakes with our shielded citizens as were made with care homes, ignoring the risks to those most vulnerable. The arguments about discharging patients into care homes without them being tested has not abated. What information does the Minister have about current and regular routine testing of care home staff, and even daily tests? There is emerging evidence of higher death rates among those with learning disabilities—yet another emerging tragedy. Does the Minister think that was avoidable? Was a strong shield wrapped around them from the start? I do not think that it was, but maybe the Minister can give us his view.

Finally, we must start thinking about what kind of NHS will emerge after the pandemic is really under control, whenever that might be. How will the system deal with the huge backlogs, such as those for cancer patients and cancelled surgery? I do not expect an answer from the Minister right now, of course, but we need a debate and a discussion. Can we expect a Statement on these matters? If we truly are now going through the worst, can we start planning for the future?

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for the Statement. From these Benches, we send our condolences to the family of Lord Rea; he will be missed. I also repeat the support from the Liberal Democrat Benches for everyone working hard to help contain and reduce Covid-19, from the magnificent front-line staff in the NHS and the care sector to all key workers, whether visible to us or not: we know that you have given your all. We also send our condolences to all those who have seen the death of families and friends over the last four months.

The World Health Organization has insisted repeatedly that no country should start to lift lockdown until Covid-19 is no longer in the community. With the noble Baroness, Lady Harding, confirming that there are still over 8,000 new cases per day, clearly it is still in the community, and WHO also says that lockdown should not be lifted until a full test, trace and isolate process is in competent operation across the country, which it is not.

Can the Minister explain why Ministers took the decision to start the process of lifting lockdown even though the Chief Medical Officer refused to allow the threat level to reduce from four to three? Unlike other European countries, which started lifting lockdown only when the daily death rates were below 10, today the department reports a total of 359 people died in the UK in the last 24 hours. Why was the shielding advice changed over the weekend, and why was no guidance sent out to GPs, care homes and clinical groups? I can confirm, as someone who is shielding, that I still have had no advice, by text, by letter or by telephone, on what I should be doing now that the advice appears to have changed. What can the Minister do to reassure people who are shielding that this is safe advice?

What steps are the Government taking to prepare for flare-ups of cases in our communities, and, worse, an early second wave? Will the care sector be involved in that preparation, given that they appear to have been left to hang out to dry in order to protect the NHS? I understand that unlike hospitals, the care sector has not been approached at all yet.

In the Statement, the Secretary of State refers to the publication of the Public Health England report on disparities and the risks and outcomes of Covid-19. The Runnymede Trust summarised the problems with the report, saying that there were not

“any recommendations on how to save BAME lives.”

What specific guidance is being provided to the NHS and care sectors to protect BAME staff in high-risk Covid-19 areas? Can the Minister comment on the report from the Western General Hospital that BAME locums were disproportionately placed on rotas in coronavirus-intense wards, and that the hospital has experienced a recent and very large spate of cases?

Yesterday, the Office for National Statistics wrote its second letter in four weeks to the Secretary of State, challenging him in the bluntest terms and accusing him of obfuscation and confusion on the number of daily tests carried out. Can the Minister give the House a date when we will be able to see real and consistent data on testing, approved by the ONS, back- dated and adjusted, so that there is no room for any misunderstanding?

I return to the issue I have raised repeatedly with the Minister: the care sector. At the weekly APPG on Adult Social Care update today, we heard again from across the sector that it still faces a number of problems, some of which the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, outlined. To be clear—before the Minister responds again, saying that this is just anecdotal evidence—we were told that this is happening in a large number of care homes and settings in wide areas right across England. This is not a one-off.

First, a number of CCGs are still pushing care homes to take block-bookings of patients coming out of hospital without having had Covid tests. The Prime Minister and Secretary of State have repeatedly said that this has never happened. It has happened and is still happening. When will it stop?

Secondly, on PPE, the care sector says that the Clipper system is finally starting to be rolled out across the country—a mere eight weeks after your Lordships’ House was told that it was only a handful of days away. However, care homes report that deliveries are still only a portion of their original orders, meaning homes still have to make decisions about rationing. Can the Minister provide a date by which the care sector will receive all the PPE it orders and needs?

Thirdly, the Minister told us that all care homes would be offered tests by 6 June. I repeat my question from two weeks ago as to why some homes are excluded from the portal so that they cannot access tests. These are homes for learning-disabled adults and disabled people under 65. Given the worrying comments on the inequalities data in the PHE report, when will this change?

Fourthly and finally, I echo the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, about it being essential for all health sector staff to be able to access repeat testing to keep people safe. While it is true that it is happening for NHS staff, it is not true that our care homes or staff working in the community are able to access regular testing. Can the Minister please provide a date by which staff in care settings will have regular testing? This is vital because there are so many asymptomatic cases. They need parity with the NHS.

I recognise that I have asked a large number of specific questions and hope that, even if the Minister cannot answer them now, he will be able to write to me and others taking part in the Statement. Perhaps he could also answer any of the questions from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, if he cannot answer them now.