Housing: Discretionary Housing Payment

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Wednesday 9th April 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

The savings that we are looking at—which are running on the Budget scoring at £490 million—are both observable and unobservable; in other words, from people moving or from people taking up jobs and coming off benefits. There are various figures around. The BBC last week talked of 6% of people moving in 11 months; the JRF report, which the noble Lord has just cited, talked about 6% in six months; a report a couple of months ago from Harry Phibbs, doing a similar job, found that 11% had come off benefits because they had gone into work. We will have proper returns on discretionary housing payments in May, and are working on getting a proper report on all of this.

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

Will the Minister answer the question posed by my noble friend about the number of evictions? Does he know the number, and does he care?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I am not sure of the exact number of evictions, but I do not think that there are very many at all, if any. Clearly it is a matter of great concern. I can let the noble Baroness know that the data from the Homes and Communities Agency, which are based on the 266 largest housing associations with more than 1,000 homes, show that the average arrears in the final quarter of last year—the third quarter of the financial year—fell to 3.9% from 4.1% in the previous quarter and that rent collection rates for the year stood at 99%.

Mesothelioma Bill [HL]

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, I think—I certainly hope—that every speaker in the debate will welcome the introduction of the Bill. I acknowledge and pay tribute to those who have worked so hard to get us to this stage, including the Minister and, obviously, my noble friend on the Front Bench, who has campaigned for so long, but also those outside this House, the trade unions and campaign groups, who have been unhappy with compensation arrangements for many years. I regret the fact that industrial diseases and compensation for them are always recognised only slowly, usually very late and often tragically late for many of those who are involved. We should acknowledge that one of the drawbacks in what we are trying to do is the insurance industry being so much stronger than the other interested parties.

I will say a word on the previous Labour Government and what they did. I am proud of many things that the previous Labour Government did, and we should shout about them and apologise less. However, I am sorry that more progress could not be made on this issue. I am pleased that my noble friend Lord McKenzie was able to do so much of the groundwork for the Bill, and glad that the Minister acknowledged that in his opening remarks.

My interest in this subject stems in part from my former constituency of Dewsbury. A number of people worked in Leeds at Turner & Newall. I knew quite a few people with family or friends who had been affected by asbestos-related diseases; they had either suffered themselves or known people who had. I also know what a difference compensation could make to the peace of mind of those who were afflicted in that way.

It was also a coal-mining area. We therefore had quite a lot of contact with the schemes for compensation for pneumoconiosis. Something that strikes me from working with people over those years is how important it is that people who are entitled to compensation not only receive it, but receive it in full. I recall the sterling work that my good friend the late Lord Lofthouse undertook in this House to ensure that he could stop solicitors taking a huge cut out of the compensation claims of miners who were clearly entitled to it, and who still suffer because they lost a chunk of the money. I was interested that the noble Lord, Lord German, made this point: I am still concerned that when you type the words “asbestosis” or “mesothelioma”, or the name of any industrial disease, into a search engine, the first thing that comes up is a list of lawyers wanting to act on your behalf on a no-win no-fee basis. We must be careful that we make sure that people know how to access compensation when they are entitled to it, and do so without having to pay fees in that way. In the debate in the other place the other day, my honourable friend Kevan Jones, who had been a trade union legal officer, talked about how he had to fight for compensation and how that could be done.

Going slightly further back, in the 1970s I was involved with the campaign to try to get compensation for those affected by byssinosis which, as the noble Baroness opposite will know, is the cotton-dust disease. I mention this, although it perhaps seems a slight diversion, because it illustrates how government, industry, society and insurers have never really acted together as they should. Our record as a country on compensating people with industrial diseases is not good. Compensation for byssinosis started in the 1940s—only for men, only for those who had worked for 20 years and only for those who had worked in a very specific part of the cotton industry, in carding. Bit by bit, although every bit was a struggle, it was extended first to women, then to a 10-year limit, then to other branches of the cotton industry and eventually to everybody who worked in it. It was piecemeal because of all the barriers that came down from the industry, from insurance, from problems with record-keeping and from legal difficulties. Although Labour Governments made very significant headway in health and safety throughout that time, I do not think that any Government have fully acknowledged the need for a totally comprehensive approach to industrial diseases. There is still a shame—a record that we cannot be proud of because we should have been acting much more quickly on all these issues.

The Minister outlined some of the difficulties that he can see, and some of the difficulties in the piecemeal approach to this particular disease. That could give us a case for a no-fault compensation scheme, but while that could avoid many of the barriers and delays, it is a bit late for that in this context, and now is not the time to argue that.

I welcome the Bill and congratulate the Minister on getting to this stage. However, as my noble friend Lord McKenzie said, there are deficiencies and issues that we will want to address as the Bill progresses. Questions have already been raised as to why this particular date was chosen. I understand where the Minister is coming from but we will have to look at that again, because to have that kind of cut-off and affect so many people’s lives so significantly is a very severe decision.

The 70% compensation figure was also mentioned. I feel some attraction to what the noble Lord, Lord German, said about perhaps having a different approach, and if there is a problem there, having a cap on the figure rather than an automatically lower figure than people might get in civil courts.

On the question of why other similar diseases, such as asbestosis and so on, cannot be included, I understand that the Minister wants a simple and streamlined scheme, as I think he called it. However, having a simple and streamlined scheme and extending the process to other diseases are not mutually exclusive. We could have an incremental approach so that this comes into force as soon as possible but the door is left open for other diseases to join this scheme in the future. Other people will be worried, and I do not see why they should have to wait and suffer the diseases that they have at the moment, and perhaps in the future.

I also hope that the Minister can give some assurances about the other point that my noble friend made about awareness campaigns through health and safety, and an increased emphasis on medical research. The Minister said that a balance had to be struck, and I think we all accept that that is the case. However, in Committee we have to ask ourselves whether this is the best balance possible, or whether we could make some improvements.

As others have said, we are talking about a horrible, debilitating, deadly disease caused by the workplace environment. We are talking about people whom the Government, in their current parlance, would describe as strivers. These people worked hard and deserve the best we can give them. While we want the Bill to have a swift passage, I hope through both Houses, we have to try to improve it for their sakes and for all that they have suffered so far.