Northern Ireland Executive: Update

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Thursday 6th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement in this House this afternoon. As he knows, we have pressed him on many occasions to see more action from the Government as a matter of urgency to restore the talks process. With this in mind, will he and the Secretary of State formally thank Naomi Long, the leader of the Alliance Party, for bringing together the five main parties for informal talks on Monday? This is the first time that all the parties have engaged in round table talks in the last six months. Naomi Long should be congratulated on this initiative.

As the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, said, the Statement makes reference to,

“when and how external facilitation could play a constructive role in the next round of talks”.

Given the length of time that Northern Ireland has been without a Government, it is clear that the political parties would benefit from outside thinking and a fresh approach. So, can the Minister say when the Government plan to appoint a mediator to manage a fresh talks process? Have the Government given any consideration to other creative solutions to get the talks going again, such as legislating here on issues such as the Irish language and equal marriage? This would relieve some of the pressure on the parties and allow a different starting point for the talks.

Will the Government also consider reconstituting the Assembly department scrutiny committees in parallel to a talks process? Assembly committees could undertake the functions of scrutinising budgets and providing political advice and guidance on key policy decisions such as Brexit. In this critical phase of the Brexit negotiations, does the Minister agree that it is essential to introduce some kind of formalised mechanisms to consult and take into consideration the views of all political parties in Northern Ireland—not just those of the DUP?

We are pleased to see that the Government intend to legislate to allow public appointments to be made. The clearest need is for the Policing Board to be re-established, but there are other bodies for which appointments are needed to enable vital work to continue. We also welcome the Government’s decision to take forward Trevor Reaney’s proposals on MLAs’ salaries. We are particularly pleased to see that staff will not be included in this. We do not believe that the current stalemate is in any way the fault of the hard-working constituency and Assembly staff. We are also pleased that there will be further clarity for civil servants in the future.

We on these Benches continue to believe that the best solution for Northern Ireland is devolved government and a well-functioning devolved Assembly. We sincerely hope that there will be significant progress in the very near future.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their contributions. They were both very positive and constructive, recognising the difficulty and dilemma we face at this moment.

The key now is a fresh start—a new impetus. It is an opportunity, but also a reminder. It is probably the last opportunity by which we can comfortably secure a functioning Executive and a restored Assembly. If we are not able to take advantage of this moment in time then, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, we will descend into direct rule. We do not wish to go there.

Both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness were correct to identify the notion of an external facilitator. As I have said on previous occasions in this House, nothing can be off the table. We welcome thoughts from anyone as to who may participate in this approach. I offer formal thanks to Naomi Long for bringing together, for the first time in quite some time, all the parties in Northern Ireland. It is essential that all voices and all political representation are part of the sustainable solution to restoring an Assembly and a functioning Executive.

We are committed to ensuring that the appointments to the public bodies are taken forward in a sensible and sensitive way. It is not just the police authorities. There are others, all of which require these voices to be put forward.

As the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, said, we need a clear, intensive and structured approach with deadlines. If it needs to be something other than a particular tried and tested forum, then we should explore this as well. Nothing can be off the table but, importantly, this is the moment at which we must do all we can to restore the Executive. Once this window closes, we descend into a far more chilling and darker time which would be bad for all those who care about Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland: Executive and Assembly

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

My Lords, if the answer was as simple as that, we might have been able to achieve some progress by now. Unfortunately, it is a little more nuanced and a little trickier, but I am fully aware that both sides recognise the value and vitality of the languages in the Province of Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, only 7% of pupils in Northern Ireland are currently in integrated education. In the absence of an Executive, what is the Government’s strategy on delivering new integrated schools? Does he agree that moving away from segregated schools plays a significant role in helping society move on from the past in Northern Ireland?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The noble Baroness is right to raise such an important issue but, of course, this is a fully devolved matter. It should not be the Government of the United Kingdom who seek to impose such changes on the school structure in Northern Ireland. None the less, Northern Ireland’s Executive must grapple with these issues when they resume their role.

Northern Ireland: Devolved Institutions

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I welcome those remarks in the spirit in which they were delivered. The report of which the noble Lord speaks is important and the Government will consider its findings carefully.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that an additional consequence of the continued absence of an Executive is that important social issues remain unresolved, such as the reform of the 150 year- old, outdated abortion laws in Northern Ireland, which continue to cause such distress and are leading women increasingly to adopt the dangerous practice of self-medicating and purchasing abortion pills online?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

Abortion is of course a devolved matter. None the less, it is important to stress that there are issues of conscience that need to be considered—but, again, we should not be relying on a Victorian law. It is time for change.

Northern Ireland Finances

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating yesterday’s Statement. However, there is a slightly wearying sense of déjà vu about it, and one cannot help but wonder at what point these sticking-plaster solutions will cease to be viable. Clearly, however, a return to direct rule is something that we all wish to avoid, and we continue to believe firmly that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making. In that regard, the Secretary of State’s reassertion of the Government’s commitment to both the Good Friday Belfast agreement and to re-establishing functioning devolution in Northern Ireland is very much to be welcomed.

We on these Benches recognise the pressures on public services, meaning that these measures are essential to ensuring that the people of Northern Ireland do not suffer in the provision of vital services, and to ensuring that education and healthcare services can function and that peace and stability can be maintained by the PSNI. The Police Federation has warned that the 0.3% increase in the Ministry of Justice budget will inflict real damage on the PSNI. The PSNI is currently spending £125,000 a day on overtime to fill gaps in its workforce capacity. Can the Minister confirm that ensuring that the PSNI is able to carry out its work effectively remains a key priority for the Government? The Civil Service in Northern Ireland, as the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, has said, continues to do sterling service in keeping the system functioning but, without the direct input of Northern Ireland Ministers, much-needed long-term strategic planning for Northern Ireland becomes increasingly difficult.

In the Statement on 20 February, in reply to my question about the introduction of an independent mediator to chair the all-party talks and to attempt to bring new impetus to the drive to re-establish an Executive in Northern Ireland, the Minister said nothing was ruled out. Can he give an update on whether that is still an option that is being actively considered? Can he also outline what other initiatives are being actively considered to break the current impasse in the talks?

I note the ongoing discussions on MLA pay and the Reaney review. What representations has the Secretary of State had on this issue from political parties in Northern Ireland? In the Statement the Secretary of State says,

“it would be irresponsible for us not to consider how we might provide for different arrangements until such time as the devolved institutions are back up and running”.

Can the Minister confirm that this would involve options allowing Members of the Assembly to play an active role in ensuring that Northern Ireland’s voice is heard clearly in the Brexit negotiations?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their contributions. It is important for us to stress again at the outset that we are all united in our belief that the Belfast agreement itself must be the foundation upon which we build all our progress. I think we are all of the same view. I am aware that we are experiencing a recurring sense of déjà vu—we certainly are with some of my Statements—but it is our ambition to secure the reformation of a functional and sustainable Executive in Northern Ireland.

I think it is important for me to answer the questions directly as they have been raised. On the question from the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, on how we came to the figures within the overall budget, he is right to stress that we have put a great deal of pressure and stress upon the Northern Ireland Civil Service, but it has been very important in determining departmental needs. That has been the first building block. The second is that, as he will be aware, a budget briefing was published just before Christmas. The Northern Ireland Office has reflected very carefully upon the responses that were received in the light of that briefing from the main parties of Northern Ireland, and they have been borne in mind. In addition, my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has undertaken a fairly extensive engagement with individual stakeholders —teachers, doctors, nurses, and police officers—to understand the challenges faced on the ground. It is important to reflect on how important that is.

The figures we are talking about are substantial, and I believe they will make a substantial difference. We have £80 million of support for immediate health and education pressures, £30 million to support programmes to address issues of mental health and severe deprivation, £100 million for ongoing work to transform the health service in line with broad-based consensus fostered by the Bengoa report, and a £200 million allocation in capital spending for key infrastructure projects.

That gives a sense of the scale of the investment. There is also a recognition, as we build that budget—we have spoken of this before—of trying to plot a trajectory from the point at which the previous Executive fell, and then trying to plot across. We have had to take that as a basis and build on it, and that is why £4 million has been allocated to prepare the ground for transformation and £100 million set out for health transformation, recognising again that these are part of the critical elements that are identified by departmental heads in the Civil Service and the main political parties.

On the question of MLA pay, I stress again that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would like the views of others to make sure that in her determination and deliberation she can deliver exactly what is required. I am mindful of the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, about the potential roles for the MLAs themselves—even without being part of a functional Executive. As I said in a previous Statement on a not dissimilar topic, we have not ruled anything out, and would welcome the thoughts of the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie on that point, to help us in our thinking. As for when we can anticipate the legislation, if I may be slightly non-specific, we will bring forward necessary legislation imminently to deliver against the budget as we have set it out.

The noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, raised the PSNI. Again, I can be very clear and specific and say that it remains a key priority of the Government, and we will do all we can to preserve that and deliver against it.

As to the question of an independent mediator, noble Lords will be aware that we are in an interregnum—the talks have ended but are not over—and that period of reflection has given all of us an opportunity to work out what additional aspects of engagement should be brought to the table. I am becoming a little repetitive, but I will say again that we are ruling nothing out. Anything we can do to take this forward must form part of that.

We also hope that the parties involved in the talks will take advantage of this period to reflect not just on what they wish to deliver for the parties themselves but for the wider communities they represent. That will be essential. If the talks are to deliver an outcome that is sustainable, meaningful and restores local government to Northern Ireland, we need to be able to depend on them. There are too many important issues unfolding right now, not just in our House, but affecting everyone in Northern Ireland. It is time that we heard those voices in an Executive and an Assembly.

Transparency of Donations and Loans etc. (Northern Ireland Political Parties) Order 2018

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Tuesday 27th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, for his intervention. Again, I stress this point. As a frequent visitor to North America, I have discovered many people who invoke their affinity to the homeland. I have met many Scots—who may indeed be fourth or fifth-generation Scots—who proudly wear their tartan as frequently as they possibly can. I do not fault that; I celebrate it. That is true for citizens of whichever homeland might be in question.

However, in terms of their rights and abilities to donate money to Northern Ireland, they must hold a valid Irish passport—not an Irish passport held by their grandparents, which might entitle them to play for Ireland—or a certificate of nationality or naturalisation. The order does not allow someone simply to invoke Irish heritage to be able to donate. One would hope that the transparency revealed by the order will help us to be attentive to the risks raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney. If any failings become apparent as the data is gathered, the Electoral Commission will be able to draw those to our attention and they can be examined in the cold, hard light of day. That will be very important.

The noble Lord, Lord Murphy, made a number of important context-setting remarks, which I endorse. We are at a delicate time and there is no better time for transparency than right now. There should be no escape from that transparency. As many noble Lords have heard me say more than once, we need to establish a sustainable Executive in Northern Ireland. I believe that the order will go some way to ensuring that the people of Northern Ireland have the utmost confidence in the electoral process. The order is right and timely.

I recognise that the issue of backdating will remain sensitive. If, on consideration of the data as it is gathered, ascertained and seen, there are deemed to be issues that need to be examined further, the Government will consider them at that point. We are ruling nothing in and nothing out. On that basis, I commend the order to the House.

[Baroness Suttie]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short, but extremely important and valuable, debate. I also thank the Minister for his characteristically courteous, detailed and open response.

I stress that we on these Benches will continue to press the Government to live up to their earlier commitment on backdating these provisions to 2014—I welcome some of the Minister’s comments in that regard—and to follow the advice of the Electoral Commission in bringing forward another order at the earliest convenience to make this possible. I also agree with the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, that, at the very least, following changes in circumstance, we should discuss again with the political parties in Northern Ireland and hear their views on backdating to 2014.

On this occasion, however, it would be inappropriate to test the opinion of the House. We do not want to see further delays to the order. I therefore beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Northern Ireland: Devolved Government

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hain, for his comments. The Good Friday agreement is the cornerstone of the UK Government’s position. I am very happy to reiterate that plainly and clearly and to distance ourselves from those comments made by others. It is very easy to knit a jersey and it is very easy to unravel it at the other end—far too quickly can we lose that which we have spent so long trying to put together. I am aware that on more than one occasion I have come before this House to say that we are hopeful that there will be an agreement, and I do not doubt that noble Lords in this Chamber today will share the frustration. In truth, this agreement must be delivered by the parties at the table. We believe that they were within a hair’s breadth of achieving that just the other day. We do not believe that we are at the end of this process; we cannot be at the end of this process; we need to have an Executive. The alternatives are not satisfactory, particularly against the issues which will face the people of Northern Ireland in coming months. We believe that the parties need to get together once again. I appreciate that noble Lords may be experiencing an element of déjà vu. That is not my intention, but the same ambition and the same need are there. They have not changed. Those two main parties and the other parties in Northern Ireland need to be part of an agreement which is sustainable and can command confidence. If we can achieve that, we will have done an extraordinary thing, but we are not there yet.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, three weeks ago in Belfast, when giving evidence to the Lords EU Select Committee, Sammy Wilson MP said that he and his DUP MP colleagues,

“meet Brexit Ministers almost on a weekly basis”.

Given the continued absence of a power-sharing Executive in Northern Ireland, and given the Government’s role as co-guarantor of the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, does the Minister agree that similar access should be granted to all parties in Northern Ireland?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I believe that all the parties in Northern Ireland need to be part of this dialogue, but I reiterate that to develop a power-sharing Executive, it is the two principal parties that must broker that deal. The Government are content to ensure that no party is left in the dark as to our ambitions and intentions, particularly as we go forward into some of the challenging times that have yet to come.

Northern Ireland Update

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Tuesday 20th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. On these Benches, we add our voice to those who feel a sense of deep disappointment, and indeed some bewilderment, at this latest failure to reach a workable agreement.

Just over one week ago, when the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister went to Stormont, we were led to believe that a deal was possible. That a positive outcome has once again proved elusive inevitably leads us to ask questions about the structure, participants and transparency of the negotiation process. As Naomi Long, the leader of the Alliance Party in Northern Ireland, has said, there was a degree of inevitability that,

“without a more structured approach, we would not see a successful outcome”.

This latest failure is a missed opportunity and yet again leaves the majority of ordinary people in Northern Ireland feeling deeply frustrated and without a democratically elected voice at this critical time.

Much-needed decisions have to be taken about how to ensure effective public services for the people of Northern Ireland—decisions about long-term provision for education, health and infrastructure development—and how to build the shared society that we all want. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, has just said, civil servants have played an excellent and vital role in the past 13 months during this political vacuum—and we should pay tribute to their professionalism—but without an Executive in place there remain inevitable questions about democratic legitimacy.

Three weeks ago, on a visit to Northern Ireland with the EU Select Committee, I was struck by the excellent and imaginative work being carried out by so many people in the business community, as well as in local government and civil society, to strengthen the Northern Irish economy, most particularly at this time with the additional and complex challenges of Brexit. However, their deep frustration that many of their plans were on hold because of the absence of an Executive in Stormont was palpable.

On these Benches, we continue to believe firmly that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making. It must be possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse. In that regard, can the Minister say whether thought is now being given to bringing in an external mediator to chair the negotiations? I appreciate the difficulties in identifying such a person given the sensitivities, personalities and challenges involved, but the events of last week show that such a person is now needed more than ever. In the light of last week’s failure, will Government consider making the talks all-party rather than just two-party as they are at present?

In the new circumstances, I repeat an earlier question that I put to the Minister: in the continued absence of an Executive, will the Government now give serious thought to the creative proposals put forward by the noble Lords, Lord Alderdice and Lord Trimble, among others, for allowing the Assembly to play a role in ensuring that the views of the Northern Irish people can be heard during the next few months, most especially during the Brexit negotiations?

Given what the Minister has said on inquests in the Statement, will the Government release funds for inquests into historical deaths, as was promised by David Cameron when he was Prime Minister?

It is vital that the hard-won gains of recent decades are not discarded without exploring all the options and alternatives. Northern Ireland and its political leaders have in the past overcome seemingly insurmountable problems, but this situation requires a degree of leadership and flexibility and a spirit of compromise that, sadly, seem all too absent at present. Short-term party-political gain must not be allowed to jeopardise two decades of progress.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baronesses for their insightful questions. I welcome the support—I think from all sides of this House—for trying to move this matter forward. It is true that the sense of déjà-vu is to some degree palpable. We have been speaking of the closeness between the parties involved. Indeed, that closeness brought about such proximity that it was anticipated that we would be making a very different Statement today, but we are not. We are instead making a statement, I suspect, of regret that we have not been able to bridge those gaps. The important thing to stress here is that the UK Government have acted in good faith to try to bring together the two key parties that will be instrumental in forming a functioning, sustainable Executive. We have done all we can to facilitate that dialogue.

I shall answer the specific questions raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, put her finger on it when she reflected on the inquiry she set up all those years ago and recognised that it is important that we are able to deliver, but it is, in truth, the people of Northern Ireland who must deliver, and it is an Executive who must deliver. There is no substitute—we are not a substitute and nor is the other place—for that functioning Executive and it is right that the civic society of Northern Ireland must feel a degree of frustration that this has been going on for so long. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been clear that nothing will now be taken off the table: all aspects of the negotiations will be moved forward as best we can to try to bring about some sense of movement.

Again, let me move on. I recall the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who spoke about direct rule being like walking down the steps of Stormont: it is easy to tumble down but very hard to claw your way back up. Direct rule, indeed, cannot be taken off the table but nor should it be a priority or a single focus. There are too many other avenues that we must explore. I am conscious, again, that we must recognise that the Belfast agreement and the successor agreements are all part of and core to what we will use to go forward. I welcome the remarks of the noble Baroness: the Opposition need to hold us to account and make sure that we do not slip in any way from our clear commitment to deliver, on an impartial basis, a functioning Executive in Northern Ireland. Progress has been made; the problem, of course, is that an agreement has not been reached. The bilateral discussions have taken place; the question is whether that information should be made public. At the moment, the parties themselves would prefer that information not to be made public and we would prefer to allow that to continue on that basis.

Turning to external mediation, nothing is off the table from this point onward. Again, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will consider every possible way of taking this matter forward. Indeed, the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and my noble friend Lord Trimble will be part of all consideration to make sure that every possible means we have to bring about a rekindling of this spark, to allow these talks to deliver an Executive, will be used. Nothing is off the table; indeed we have high hopes that there will be an opportunity for the parties to reconvene and to once again seek to bridge the ever-diminishing divide between the sides. This is what I believe all in this House, the other House and all the people of Northern Ireland so clearly and needfully desire at this moment.

Northern Ireland

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement today and welcome him to his new role. It is a deeply challenging time to be taking on these responsibilities and I wish him well in the weeks and month ahead.

We on these Benches cannot help but be deeply disappointed by the lack of progress in forming a new Executive. It is much to be regretted that we have now reached the stage where, once again, it has become necessary to legislate to put in place a budget for Northern Ireland. However, we recognise our obligations to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that public services can continue and agree that this is the responsible course of action at this time.

It has now been 10 months since the Executive collapsed and during this critical period Northern Ireland has been without an effective Government and without an effective voice. Northern Ireland is showing the strains of this political vacuum, with no one able to take the much-needed decisions to ensure effective public services and to build the shared society that we all want to see. This is all the more tragic at a time when strategic planning to grow the Northern Irish economy in the challenging months and years ahead is so deeply needed.

However, we take some comfort from the fact that the Secretary of State is not abandoning the talks process and that this Government and the Irish Government are continuing to work hard to restore the Executive. It is vital that the hard-won gains of recent decades are not discarded without exploring all of the options and alternatives. Northern Ireland and its political leaders have in the past overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges to find the accord that became the Belfast Good Friday agreement, but this requires a degree of leadership, flexibility and a spirit of compromise that, sadly, seems all too absent at present.

We therefore urge the Secretary of State to keep in mind that there may be alternative ways to save devolution and provide for shared and sustainable government for Northern Ireland. For example, has the Minister considered intervening to provide reform of the petition of concern? This mechanism is now not being used for the purposes for which it was intended, and the mutual veto in the hands of the DUP and Sinn Fein seriously hampers free and open debate and decision-making. Secondly, to echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has the Minister given active consideration to the suggestion made by my noble friend Lord Alderdice and others that the Assembly could continue even if the Executive Ministers are not in place? In that way, there would be an elected body with which the Northern Ireland Office Ministers and other Ministers could consult and ensure that a Northern Irish voice is heard during the Brexit negotiations, including possibly some level of effective representations on the joint ministerial committee which is dealing with Brexit matters.

We on these Benches continue to believe that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making, facilitating reconciliation and providing a coherent regional voice in critical matters such as Brexit. We believe that it is possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse and urge all of those involved to redouble their efforts. The people of Northern Ireland deserve no less.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, and welcome their support. At this time, it is important that we, as a House, are united in recognising that the best place for decisions for Northern Ireland are made in Northern Ireland. I can assure the House that that is the principal aim of the United Kingdom Government. We want to facilitate talks and hope that out of those talks will emerge a functioning, sustainable Executive which can deliver for the people of Northern Ireland In the short term, of course, our discussions are limited to the financial year and a budget, but the points that have been raised are none the less valid and I shall try to address them as best I can.

I agree it is disappointing that an agreement has not been reached, but that has not been for want of effort from the United Kingdom Government, the Prime Minister, the Irish Government and the Taoiseach, who have each committed to trying to deliver an outcome that will work for the communities of Northern Ireland.

As we look at the budgets, it is important to recognise that they are not budgets of the United Kingdom: they are budgets and budget elements which have been determined by the Northern Ireland Civil Service based upon the priorities of the outgoing Executive. There has been no attempt or means used to try to influence or change that by the United Kingdom Government. Clearly it will not work in the long term, for obvious reasons, and that is why it remains our principal priority to return and deliver a functioning Executive.

On the issue of payment for Members of the Assembly, it is important to stress two things. As many will know, the Members have a constituency role as well and that cannot be lost sight of. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has committed that this issue will be carefully examined, and he will not commit to any particular outcome until he has received that careful consideration. No decision has been taken and we want to make sure that any decision that is taken works.

On the issue of involving the smaller parties, it is right that we should emphasise that this is not simply a discussion among the majorities; it must also involve all of those who are part of the widest community in Northern Ireland. The settlement that we need to see and deliver will involve all. This will done on the basis of consent, which is important.

As to the notion of joint ministerial committees, wearing my other hat as a Minister in the Scotland Office, I have sat in on meetings where the Civil Service of Northern Ireland has participated. I can assure the House, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State emphasised, that it is remarkably able and has defended and articulated the views and needs of Northern Ireland very well indeed. However, we must ensure there is a point at which those views are articulated by the elected Members of the Assembly, and that must be done as quickly as we can make it so. Again it is important to stress that we are working against a backdrop of Brexit at a time when those voices are more critical than ever, and that must be delivered in order to ensure that.

On the wider point raised by the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, about universal credit, bringing people into work is an important first step towards ensuring that they are in a better place. However, going forward, I would prefer to see a situation in Northern Ireland where decisions are taken by those elected in Northern Ireland.

I will leave it there. There are other elements which I may be able to pick up on in a written response if that is considered appropriate.