Outcome of the EU Referendum

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I hear very much the points that the noble Lord has made but they are very similar to points that have already been made that I have responded to. I do not have anything more that I can usefully add at this point.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, I was never in favour of joining the Common Market, and I have always wished to withdraw from the European Union so that we could govern ourselves. I rejoice at the instruction that the people have given us. If those people who are calling for a second referendum had won the existing one, I wonder if they would still be calling for another referendum. I very much doubt it.

I want to ask the noble Baroness a couple of questions. First, is it not necessary first of all to repeal the European Communities Act 1972, as amended? Secondly, if we remain in the single market, will we not still be obliged to agree to free movement of people and will not all of British industry be subject to the rules and laws of the single market?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As for as the legal process for exiting the European Union, triggering Article 50 is the only legal process for us to follow. It will clearly be led by another Prime Minister, but I am sure that we as a nation will want to do it responsibly. The noble Lord asks about the repeal of the 1972 Act. That would not occur at this stage, because it would be contrary to our wanting to exit from the European Union in a responsible manner. As for his question about the single market, yes, my understanding is that if we were to remain in the single market, it would require free movement of people.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I can certainly reassure the noble Lord that the Prime Minister will do exactly what he has just outlined. This is not about the Conservative Party; it is about the future of the United Kingdom. What we are doing here is what we believe is in the best interests of the people of this country.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, if the country votes out on 23 June, should not the first action the Government take be to repeal the European Communities Act 1972? That would enable negotiations to take place under Article 50. Secondly, is the Minister aware that earlier this month the original six leaders of the EEC came out and said that it was absolutely essential for Europe to proceed to ever-closer union, including fiscal union? In those circumstances, if Britain is not to be in that particular club, will we stop talking about being at the heart of Europe?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As I have already explained, what the Prime Minister has secured on ever-closer union means is that we, the United Kingdom, can be a member of the European Union in a way that properly reflects what we want from being a member. As the Prime Minister said in his Statement, we never wanted to be part of a political union, and now we have a legally binding agreement, which will be amended in the treaties, to show that we will not be part of an ever-closer union even if other members of the EU decide that is what they want.

Scotland: Fiscal Framework

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The House has decided that time is up.

G7

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My noble friend covers a range of different recommendations for us to consider. I will certainly make sure that I report them back to the relevant departments which are responsible for this matter.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, I will ask two questions. First, on overseas aid, I think it was the Defence Secretary who suggested that part of the overseas aid budget should be used to arm third-world countries and to provide other military assistance. Does the Minister agree that, if that were so, overseas aid, which is supported by most people, would lose some support?

Secondly, on Russia, I am part of the generation who lived through World War II and saw the contribution that the Russians made—26 million people dead—to the fighting and winning of that war. As far as Ukraine is concerned, there are two sides to the question. The EU, the United States and Russia have made mistakes relating to Ukraine. Instead of having discussions through foghorn diplomacy through the press and other media, would it really not be better, in the interests of peace and co-operation, for the Russians to be invited back into the G8 forthwith?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

On the noble Lord’s last point, the G7 leaders are clear that that will not happen until Putin wants to adopt the values that he has decided no longer apply to him, which is the point that I tried to make when responding to the questions about sanctions. This is not just a group of people trying to ensure prosperity in the world; it is also an organisation that represents values that are important and that underpin how we achieve that prosperity. If somebody such as President Putin does not subscribe to those values, as he clearly does not, there is not a place for him at the G7, or for it to be extended.

On the noble Lord’s point about overseas aid and defence spending, my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary was making an important point: clearly, a lot of overseas aid contributes to our security and to stability in other countries, whether that is by tackling something such as Ebola or by supporting people with humanitarian needs. In doing that, we hope to return a country to some sort of stability so that it can prosper. That is another way of protecting ourselves and our defences.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Monday 23rd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

Why do you think I am sitting over here?

I want to raise a quick question about Iran. We all agree that Iran must never be allowed to develop nuclear weapons, but I would remind the Leader of the House that Iran is a member of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Israel is not, yet it has nuclear weapons. What will the Government do to persuade Israel that it too should join the non-proliferation treaty so that proper discussions can take place between two equal parties?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord raises an important question, but in the time available I will not be able to do it justice. Clearly we want to prevent the extension of nuclear arms wherever there may be a risk of that happening.

Ukraine (Shooting Down of MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Monday 21st July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The number of Israeli civilians killed and injured by Gaza rockets amount to two killed and 13 treated for shrapnel-related injuries; 13 Israeli soldiers have been killed during the ground operation. But as the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said in her response to my Statement, this is not about comparing numbers. All loss of life is a real tragedy. It is important that we acknowledge that the rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel are indiscriminate. Clearly, we want Israel to respond proportionately and minimise the loss of civilian life. More than anything, we want this situation to stop and the bloodshed to end. That is possible only when both sides cease fire. Certainly, the most important first step in that would be for Hamas to stop firing its rockets.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

On Ukraine, is it not reprehensible that the tragedy of MH17 is being used for so much international political rhetoric? Would it not be better to have some tact and diplomacy? We have heard that the Prime Minister had a 30-minute conversation with Mr Putin. We have heard what financial sanctions were proposed, but presumably during the 30-minute telephone call Mr Putin had something to say. Will the Minister tell us exactly what he said and whether he confirmed that he wished to have an international investigation into the downing of MH17?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The current calls for Russia to de-escalate and the sanctions that we are putting in place are in response to Russian activity in Ukraine, which predates last week’s incident. It would be wrong of the noble Lord to suggest that all our efforts being made now are only on the back of the terrible crime committed on Thursday. What happened on Thursday has focused minds, but it has not led to the start of our demands for Russia to take all the necessary steps to withdraw from its aggression in Ukraine.

As for what President Putin said in response to my right honourable friend, I do not have details of that. I can say to the noble Lord that clearly the conversation that the Prime Minister had with President Putin has had some influence. Thankfully and finally, we are starting to see some co-operation from the separatists in Ukraine to help ensure that the bodies there are treated with the dignity and respect that they deserve, that the right authorities are properly able to do their job, and that we can get to the bottom of just what happened.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Monday 17th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

If my noble friend will forgive me, although I responded to the most reverend Primate on this topic, this topic is quite a point of detail and we will be debating it later at great length, so rather than trying to flick through my briefing folder now to find specific answers, when we have that debate I will be absolutely prepared and armed to respond to her at that time.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

On that point, in the case of a heterosexual marriage, annulment depends on consummation, not procreation. In those circumstances, since that will not apply to same-sex couples, there is no equality in this Bill.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord has done me a great service because he reminds me that I was wrong in the connection that I made to procreation. That is why it would be much safer if we debated this matter when I have the right speaking notes in front of me. I am grateful to the noble Lord.

I can, however, respond to the question from my noble friend Lord Lester. This was a US Supreme Court case that ended the bussing of children to segregated schools in the USA. I am wary of making a direct read-across, but my noble friend makes a point that is very worthy of consideration: that separate but equal can be a cloak of inequality.

I think I have covered all the points raised in the debate, so I ask the noble Lords whose amendments we have been discussing not to press them.