Child Support Management of Payments and Arrears (Amendment) Regulations 2012

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Lord—he is demonstrating his experience in this area. That is one fewer letter for us to have to commission and I am sure that my friends behind me will be grateful for that. The noble Lord asked if there is scope for the non-resident parent to disagree between allocations to the Secretary of State and the parent with care. We will give the parent with care’s debt the priority and both clients will be informed of this. The non-resident parent can specify which parent with care, as I explained in my opening remarks, but the department will decide the priority hierarchy after that. Obviously, we will give the parent with care priority over the Secretary of State.

The noble Lord asked what was defective about the enforcement powers that might lead us to this arrangement for part-payment. The enforcement powers are not defective, but there are circumstances in which there is no suitable action to take; for example, where a non-resident parent is self-employed and has no assets. In this example, there is often no way of collecting the debt in full—I think that might address one of the points of the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, as well.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, asked about the lump sum of part-payments and clarified why instalments have to be regulated for at a later date. This is one of those technical answers. If we regulated to allow for that now but could not facilitate it in practice I am advised that we could face legal challenge. We can therefore only introduce the legal power once we know that we can deliver it in practice. So we would if we could, but we cannot.

[Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope]

That is a first.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I shall ignore the remarks of the noble Lord from a sedentary position and keep moving on.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, also asked how the department will stop non-resident parents using the part-payment powers to play the system—“Where are the risks?”. The noble Lord may not have used that phrase, but I think he was asking where the risks were in this. If a non-resident parent enters into a part-payment agreement and subsequently defaults, the legislation provides that the commission may cancel the agreement and pursue the non-resident parent for the total amount of the arrears that they owe. Both parents would be notified of this before entering into a part-payment agreement with the commission. A non-resident parent will therefore have an incentive to remain compliant with their part-payment agreement.

The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, talked about older cases and asked whether arrears in these cases will get the same priority as more recent ones. The strategy to which we have already referred, and which is due for publication soon, will set out what we plan to do to stem the growth of arrears and manage arrears in all types of cases. It is an issue that we recognise and it will be addressed. He also asked about any arrears that have built up on the existing schemes once a case has been closed. This subject will be brought before the House for debate next year—I look forward to debating it at that time and I will ensure that I am fully equipped to answer the noble Lord then. Arrears of maintenance accrued under existing schemes will continue to be owed to the parent with care unless that parent requests that it not be collected.

I have covered the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, and I believe that I have done the same for the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie. I will conclude by restating my thanks to the noble Lords for their support for these regulations.

Jobseeker’s Allowance (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2012

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope

Monday 8th October 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

There is no change in the appeal measure. I will come on to sanctions in a moment and give more specific information on appeals but the short answer to the question is “no change”. Safeguards were raised by the noble Lords, Lord McKenzie and Lord McAvoy, and the noble Baroness. I do not want to take up the Committee’s time as I clearly spelt out the safeguards in my opening remarks. They will be very much as they are now. That area will not change.

The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, asked about people with mental health issues. The decision-makers will receive in-depth training to ensure that they are able to make the decisions that are required of them as they affect people with mental health issues. The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, asked whether a jobseeker’s period of sanction counting towards the 182 days contribution-based entitlement will be changed. No, because a person is still entitled to JSA during a sanction period. Therefore, entitlement continues for that 182 days, including any sanction.

I think that I have covered most of the points that have been made. The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, asked whether Jobcentre Plus has any targets for sanction referrals. I can say categorically that it does not. The noble Baroness, Lady Turner, asked about the appeal process, as did other noble Lords. Claimants may appeal any decision to reduce or stop their benefits arising from the First-tier Tribunal within one month of being notified of their sanction or disentitlement. Claimants can also ask Jobcentre Plus to reconsider the decision to sanction or disentitle. Jobcentre Plus will reconsider all decisions before any appeal so that only unresolved disputes have to go to an appeal hearing. Of course, we will ensure that all new claimants receive clear information about the sanctions regime and the appeal process.

I think that the noble Lord, Lord German, asked about ESA and whether the measure aligned JSA with universal credit. That will be introduced by a separate statutory instrument through the negative resolution procedure. It is not part of the measure that we are discussing. I take on board the points he made about the Printed Paper Office. I think that—

[Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope]

I apologise for interrupting the Minister, who is responding well to some difficult technical questions. I have a very important question concerning the universal credit pilots. I am sorry if I have not made this point clearly enough. I know that they are universal credit pilots, not JSA pilots. When those pilots are in being, will the department not just look at the effect of sanctions in terms of taking people off benefit but also carry out work to establish what effect sanctions have in getting people back into sustainable jobs? I think the answer to the question is yes, but will the department look at that when the pilots on universal credit are eventually rolled out in the fullness of time? It is a very important question.