Brexit: Impact on Young People

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 11th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, regarding debt, I assume that my noble friend is not harking back to the previous Question but looking forward to the negotiations on the liabilities the EU owes to this country—and we recognise there will be duties that we owe to the EU, whether they be based in law or indeed morally. A lot of thought has been given to this issue and I have answered questions on it recently. About 10 days ago, the UK negotiators gave a three-and-a-half hour presentation to the EU negotiators, examining each and every part of the directives and treaties the EU put forward as a list of references, without explaining their application to the UK’s liability. So we are deeply involved in examining wherein lay the duties, each way, to each other.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the European Social Fund gives adults opportunities to learn—often, people who are less likely to go into further or higher education or benefit from the Erasmus scheme. Does the Minister agree that the Government’s proposed shared prosperity fund should be used to replace money such as the European Social Fund to ensure that such opportunities for learning will continue?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness makes an important and interesting point, and I shall certainly take it back. We need to look over the whole range of activity which encompasses youth training and learning. As the noble Baroness was speaking, I was reminded of the youth mobility scheme, which allows young people aged 18 to 30 from participating countries and territories to learn how to live and work in other societies.

Update on the Progress of EU Exit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said, in reading out the Statement from the Secretary of State, that,

“we have been clear that the UK and the EU will have financial obligations to each other that will survive our exit from the EU. In July the Commission set out the EU position. We have a duty to our taxpayers to interrogate that position rigorously. That is what we did, line by line”.

The Minister suggested that the European Commission had not brought forward any numbers. What on earth has been discussed line by line? Is this all fantasy?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is of course right to pursue the matter of what has been discussed. There was an over three-hour presentation by the UK technical group challenging line by line the treaty basis—the various regulations and directives, all of which were listed in the paper to which Monsieur Barnier referred in last week’s press conference, at which I believe I heard him say that the Commission had a link to the legal bases for all on that list. In fact that was not quite accurate; there are two entries in the published list where there is no reference. That is what we are testing; the Commission goes and looks at the exact wording of the treaty, but what we are saying is that one needs to look also at how that is applied to people as well. Still, we are also challenging the legal basis itself.

Brexit

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 4th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to point out that it is important to be able to set out issues such as that, but we must do so in a way that is in sync with our negotiations across Europe. Further papers were released by the European Commission just at the end of last week, which I have read, and we will be responding to those shortly. I hope we will then be able to share those more widely.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, in response to the International Relations Committee’s Middle East report, where we raised the issue of the importance of bilateral relations with our EU partners, the Government said that,

“until the Government’s negotiations on exiting the EU have concluded, there will be no decisions on specific post-Brexit arrangements”.

Is there any evidence that the Government have a clue where they are going? Should we be worried? Is Steve Baker helping?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we work closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—my own department until recently—and clearly the Ministers there look very seriously at this issue, particularly at a time of the remembrance of the Balfour declaration. I assure the noble Baroness that the security issues across that region are crucial to us, which is why the Prime Minister made it clear that security co-operation must be a vital part not only of the first tranche of discussions, which they are, but of the agreement to be reached.

Recent Changes to US Immigration Policy

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 30th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I can assure my noble friend that that is the position as we understand it, as it is the existing direction given to those who carry out the checks. The FCO website says:

“The only dual nationals who might have extra checks are those coming from one of the 7 countries themselves – for example a UK-Libya dual national coming from Libya to the US”.


This was merely a caveat; a slight warning that there is likely to be longer queues for those going into the US. All of us who have travelled to the United States know how long those queues can be. It is just a cautionary matter in an evolving and confusing time at the US end. There will still be time for this to work through. Of course, this is only for a 90-day period, subject to evaluation, and we understand that there are legal challenges in some US states.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, before she went to Washington, the Prime Minister suggested that she was going to “speak truth to Trump”. At the press conference on Friday, it appeared that she may have made some progress on NATO and torture, yet her response to the executive orders was that the United States was responsible for its policy on refugees. Does the Prime Minister understand that there is a difference between refugee policy and immigration policy? Can we call on the Minister to ask the Prime Minister to tell the President of the United States that his action is in breach of international law? The Foreign Secretary telling Members of the House of Commons about the rights of UK nationals is one thing, but if anything is speaking “truth to Trump”, it is saying that this policy on refugees is morally abhorrent and illegal.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I have already mentioned, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that this policy is wrong and is not one that we would adopt. But, clearly, Governments make policy. We did not make this one and, as I have said, we would not make it. We could not make that clearer to President Trump if we tried. The whole issue of international law is a matter for lawyers to construe. I am sure that we and all the members of the United Nations will work on this issue to see whether it is compatible with international law, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised.

Syria and Iraq: Genocide

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the DfID aid budget is indeed used to ensure that those who need humanitarian aid receive it but also to address the issue of education. For example, a preliminary project in Iraq is looking at how to ensure that teachers are able to deliver education in a way that means that the next generation will not have some of the prejudices that have unfortunately been seen in some—only some—of the present generation. The Government of Iraq work very closely with us for peace and reconciliation.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, what further discussions have Her Majesty's Government had with other members of the Security Council, particularly Russia and China, about the suffering of minorities at the hands of Daesh? What discussions do they plan to have with the incoming United States Administration?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, following the launch by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in September of the global campaign to bring Daesh to justice, we ensured that we had discussions with the other members of the Security Council—who were already aware of what was about to happen. We are making good progress in discussions across the United Nations on designing a system whereby evidence can be collected to bring Daesh to justice. Although I know that we have our differences with Russia over the way in which it has carried out some of its activities in Syria, I am hopeful that it may be in a position to support a process of bringing forward evidence in conjunction with the Government of Iraq—because it is Iraq led—so that the United Nations can then have a resolution before it which could be accepted by all.

European Union

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 4th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, yes.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, when the Prime Minister announced his intention to stand down, he suggested that, pending the election of his successor, he would do everything to “steady the ship” over the coming weeks and months. Does this commitment mean that every Minister has to come to the Dispatch Box with the same ministerial briefing—that this is a matter for the next Prime Minister or the next Government—and if so, is this really steadying the ship, or has the ship run aground with the Prime Minister as the first leader overboard?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

As a maritime nation with a proud history in international relations and trade, this ship is not only afloat but is avoiding the Dogger Bank and negotiating a way forward. It will of course be a matter for the next Prime Minister and the next Government to agree on the details, but this Government are putting in place the processes by which information can be gathered to inform the next Government and ensure the success of this great country.

Syria: Air Drops

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I shall respond to that last point first. The noble Lord is right: I join him in saying that there should be no impunity for those who breach international humanitarian law. However, it is a question of how and when one deals with that. He knows that this Government have put their resources where their mouth is and have committed money to enabling very brave people to gather, across Syria, information which we hope can be used in future judicial proceedings to hold to account those guilty of these atrocities.

It is important that we take stock of the United Nations request for land access to the four areas to which the Assad regime has so far refused the UN access. Once we see the result of that, we will know more about the timetable and about what happens next, but clearly, as land access is more secure, particularly for those receiving the aid as well as for those delivering it, that would be the best outcome. We have made it clear that the UN would then have to consider the application to Assad to deliver air drops. How it would do that and the viability of those air drops would be up to the UN to determine. Of course, we have to take into account that both Assad and the Russian Government have air defences in place in Syria, so if they were not to consent, we would enter a very dangerous process.

Therefore, the noble Lord is right to ask about the influence of Russia and Iran. They are both members of the ISSG, and Russia has played a leading part in agreeing to the cessation of hostilities and to humanitarian aid being delivered. Via our work through the ISSG and other organisations such as the UN and the Human Rights Council, we continue to impress on Russia the importance of using its influence to persuade the Assad regime to do what the whole world sees as the only right thing—to allow aid to be delivered to the areas that have been starved and bombed as a political weapon. That is a disgrace.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the importance of the ISSG holding the Assad Government to account. However, she mentioned that Russia is also part of that. How do Her Majesty’s Government envisage that we can hold the Assad regime to account? In the shorter term, how can we deliver humanitarian aid if Russia and the regime are not willing to allow drops?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I outlined a moment ago, the decision-making process has to depend upon the discussions being carried on today, not just with the ISSG but with the UN. It is a matter of what is the safest and most effective way of delivering aid. However, the Assad regime should be under no illusions and neither should Russia. The allies who have united against Daesh are united against the attempt to subvert democracy in Syria as a whole. Therefore, it is important that Assad takes note of the determination of countries that are united in the ISSG, which includes the UK, to deliver humanitarian aid. I pay tribute to the organisations that stand ready to do that.

European Union: United Kingdom Membership

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I find lots of things interesting, my Lords.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, if we believe Her Majesty’s Treasury’s estimates of the short-term and long-term consequences of a vote to leave the European Union, which would leave the United Kingdom financially much worse off, would that not have negative ramifications in terms of our defence expenditure? The 2% commitment to NATO is excellent, but if we have a smaller economy, that means less money, fewer defence capabilities and a weakened, less secure United Kingdom.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right.

Jan Böhmermann

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I did not quite detect a question there, but what I can say is that our Prime Minister, David Cameron, underlined the importance of protecting a free press and human rights to Turkey’s Prime Minister Davutoglu when they met on 7 March, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary also set out his concerns when he met his Turkish counterpart on 12 March. That is what we do: persuade others to recognise the importance of freedom of expression.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the lesson here is surely that Germany is free to have its own laws, whether we like them or not: it is not constrained by the European Union, just as the UK is not. Does the Minister agree that this episode demonstrates that, despite the scare stories of the Brexiteers, the European Union does not interfere in the domestic rulemaking of its member states?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I agree entirely with the noble Baroness.

Syria and Iraq: Genocide

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Because, my Lords, it is the Government’s view that, in order to hold out hope to people who have suffered from the violence of Daesh, one has to be reasonably sure of achieving agreement within the United Nations. We are not confident that that agreement currently exists. That is why we want to make progress with discussions. A lot of work is going on with regard to this. The noble Lord will be more aware than others that genocide, which has a very high threshold, is not the only determination available. There is also crimes against humanity. Let us consider how we get the perpetrators and work together on that.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister suggested that it is not for politicians to make a decision on genocide. As we have heard, there are cases under the treaty where it could be brought. We are not to be judge and jury, but surely political leadership means that we should raise it. It is not good enough simply to say that this should be left to the judge and jury. Does the Minister agree that Her Majesty’s Government should raise this at the UN, reflecting the views of your Lordships’ House during the Immigration Bill and those of the other place?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I have made clear, if one wants to persuade the United Nations to pass a resolution on something such as this that means so much to every victim, one should be assured in advance of being able to secure the result that one needs, and that would be for the prevention of genocide. Ultimately, whatever the United Nations determined, it would be for a court to decide whether a genocide had taken place. What has taken place is barbaric action by Daesh, and we need to work together to stop it.

European Union

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Government do not bypass Parliament. In one breath the noble Baroness berates the Prime Minister for not being here to deliver a Statement, but with the next she berates him, it seems, for wanting to make a Statement tomorrow on what is a complex issue, and therefore it is too soon. I sympathise with all Members of the House, in that I know they pay a great deal of attention to the renegotiations, as we should as parliamentarians. They have done so throughout the process and I will continue to do my very best to update them. Of course, it is as ever for the usual channels to determine when there are debates, and I know they are listening carefully to me because the need for Parliament to be closely involved in discussions on these matters is as dear to them as it is to me. However, the papers refer to a work in progress.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, it is welcome to note that progress appears to have been made in all four of the important areas for reform that the Prime Minister has identified. Would the Minister reflect for a moment on one aspect of the sovereignty basket and the role of national Parliaments? As someone who hopes very much to campaign to remain in the European Union, and that the Prime Minister will be leading that campaign, I ask whether the Minister can explain how a red card system that requires 55% of Parliaments to make a case is really an improvement on the current yellow card system, which requires a third of Parliaments to do so. Might not an inter-institutional agreement that deals with and strengthens the current system be somewhat better?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I appreciate that the noble Baroness has done a lot of work on the academic detailed background to this, which is an advantage that many of us do not have. The 55% figure, which the BBC has reported, is not in the text released by Mr Donald Tusk, so the proposal for a majority depends on how that is defined. This is a working document, not a final agreement. The noble Baroness asks a very reasonable question about how a red card system is more effective. Those on a football pitch know what happens when they have a red card.

EU Migration: Valletta Summit

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 3rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although this issue is not related to the Question on the Order Paper, which concerns the Valetta summit, I appreciate the real concern around the House on these matters, so, with the leave of the House, I will respond to the noble Lord. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced that over this Parliament we would take an extra 20,000 people from Syria who are in desperate need—so it is not a quota but a judgment regarding those in desperate need—and gave a commitment that 1,000 of those would be in this country by Christmas. All departments across Government are working to make sure that they have safe accommodation and care when they are here. Overall, we have led the way in providing aid to ensure that those in unsafe zones can have a life there. At the moment, £1.15 billion has been invested in the Syria and Iraq area.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the International Organization for Migration estimates that over this weekend alone 28,000 refugees and migrants tried to enter Greece. That puts the figures into perspective. That is 40% more than Her Majesty’s Government are saying they will take from Syria over the course of a whole Parliament. The Minister mentioned that one of the focuses of the Valletta summit is addressing the root causes of immigration. Another one is establishing and organising legal migration channels. Can the Minister tell us whether Her Majesty’s Government will engage in this aspect of the Valletta summit, or will they merely opt out?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is clear that everybody who will participate at Valletta will consider what legal routes of migration are appropriate. This Government have already made it clear that migration has assisted this country but it needs to be managed and legal. Other aspects will need to be discussed at Valletta. There will be an agreement at the end to make sure that all parties understand that we need to assist those in greatest need and in the greatest crisis areas across all of the Horn of Africa and north Africa.