Informal European Council

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am telling you she is influential because you are asking me.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, is not the point of a negotiation or a package of negotiations of the sort we will see with withdrawal that we will start the negotiations but nothing will be agreed until everything is agreed? Is not the danger of looking at reciprocal agreements on the rights of EU and UK citizens that nothing will be decided until the day we leave the European Union, which will be far too late to give certainty to EU nationals currently resident in the United Kingdom—something that we could do unilaterally?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can only repeat what I have said in answer to all the questions on this, which is that we are looking for an early agreement.

European Council

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we still hope that the EU will be able to sign a trade deal with Canada. We want to get a good trade deal with the EU. We have also been clear that we will not be following an existing model; we will have a bespoke arrangement. My noble friend is absolutely right that we need to be looking outwardly to countries across the world—the Commonwealth and others—with whom we can develop even stronger relationships than we have now.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, there has been a lot of talk about the great repeal Bill, which is supposed to repeal the European Communities Act 1972—all well and good. This is supposed to liberate us, perhaps, from the European Union and all the legislation. Is it not the case that the great repeal Bill will simultaneously enshrine all existing EU law that is presently on the statute book and regulations, which currently have direct effect, will have to be enshrined into UK law as well? This is not a great repeal Bill; it is a great enshrinement of EU law, and the Bill is perhaps a great deceit.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness is right that we believe that that is the right approach, because it provides stability and certainty, and gives us time to look in huge detail at the rules and regulations we want to keep and those that we perhaps want to repeal.

G20 Summit

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The G20 summit focused on the need to develop a sustainable framework for the global management of migration. By reducing the incentives to make dangerous secondary journeys and stopping organised immigration crime groups from exploiting the vulnerable, we can achieve better outcomes for migrants. As my noble friend will be aware, the UK is a major contributor to Operation Sophia. We are also looking ahead from the summit to two high-level migration events at the UN General Assembly later this month: the UN Secretary-General’s high-level meeting on large movements of refugees and migrants and President Obama’s leaders’ summit on refugees. They will build on the work that was undertaken at the London Syria conference in February.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s Statement is a little perplexing. She says that,

“we will make a success of Brexit”,

but that follows:

“By building on existing partnerships”.

Surely the point of Brexit is that we are leaving our most important partnership—the European Union. Can the noble Baroness explain how we plan to become a global leader in trade when, at the moment, all our trade negotiation is done through that most important partnership of the European Union and we do not have our own trade negotiators?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we are not turning our back on Europe. We want to be a global leader in trade and we are negotiating a new relationship with Europe.

European Council

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As the noble Lord knows and the House understands—we all understand—the people of the United Kingdom were offered an opportunity to decide whether we should remain in the European Union or not. They have made their decision; we are now in a period of having to transition between that decision having been made and the next steps being taken. At the moment, what the Prime Minister is doing, and what I am doing, is setting out the information that we have—recognising of course that there is much more that needs to be established. That is something that the next Prime Minister will have to take forward but, in the meantime, the Government are doing quite a bit in order to prepare for that stage.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am almost minded to ask—given that Vote Leave promised us that we could “take control”—whether anybody is in control at the moment. However, I want to point to Chancellor Angela Merkel’s comments in the Bundestag yesterday when she said that she was concerned about German citizens living in this country who are concerned about their future. We have not even triggered Article 50 yet. The noble Baroness suggested that nothing changes until we leave, but, actually, things have changed already. People are aware that we have taken that vote and that decision. We need some leadership from the Government and we need to know that the rights of EU nationals resident in this country will be secured. That is for the Government to do, not for negotiations.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am afraid that I can only say what I have already said, which is that the rights of all people from the European Union living in this country are unchanged at this time. As frustrating as it may be for the noble Baroness to hear me say it again, their rights are completely unchanged. It is of course something that we will need to clarify, but it is not something that I am able to do today.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

It sounds as if the noble Lord is trying to suggest a second referendum at a later point. This has been a once-in-a-generation decision. The people of this country have been clear. When we trigger Article 50 the clock on the two-year process will start. The Prime Minister has not triggered it now because he believes that it is right that when going into that process the Government are clear on what kind of relationship they want with the European Union in future. That is why he is not doing so himself but is leaving it to his successor.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, I welcome the creation of an EU unit in Whitehall, although one wonders why it did not exist already—I think that in some incarnations, it did. In particular, the idea of bringing together policy expertise is welcome. What provision is there for cross-party and non-party involvement in setting the mandate for those civil servants? After all, Vote Leave was a cross-party thing—it even had a Liberal Democrat on its board—and the remain campaign was also cross-party. Surely in the national interest the new Prime Minister should be looking across the spectrum to get the best input so that whatever deal we get really is the best for the whole of the United Kingdom and not just something that narrow parties can bring about?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Clearly the campaigns for leave and remain were cross-party, but there is one party in government. It was elected last year and this elected Government will have the responsibility, albeit very much, as I have already indicated, wanting to draw on expertise and knowledge from a range of different sources, of deciding what precisely they are going to seek to negotiate with Europe in terms of our future relationship.

Government and Parliament

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, for bringing forward this Motion for debate and I welcome many of the comments she made. I intend to focus my remarks on the balance of power between the Executive and the legislature and between your Lordships’ House and the other place, leaving the more detailed discussion of statutory instruments to those with rather more experience in your Lordships’ House than I yet have.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, has already noted, one issue is uncontested—the primacy of the elected Chamber. We all agree on that. It is the basis on which the Salisbury convention rests and the reason why your Lordships normally hold back on matters that were clear manifesto commitments of the governing party, even if we on these Benches have not formally subscribed to the Salisbury convention. This inevitably leads to a degree of executive dominance in a way that does not occur in the US, where the separation of powers is strictly observed, or in many European countries, where coalition Governments, consensus Governments and minority Governments often render legislatures relatively more powerful than in the United Kingdom. Coupled with the large payroll vote in the United Kingdom, there is a tendency to executive dominance, for the Government to lead the process of legislation. Parliament sometimes appears to be silent.

In its excellent briefing on the Salisbury doctrine, however, the House of Lords Library reminds us that the doctrine argued that,

“the will of the people and the views expressed by the House of Commons did not necessarily coincide, and that in consequence, the House of Lords had an obligation to reject, and hence refer back to the electorate, particularly contentious Bills, usually involving a revision of the constitutional settlement, which had been passed by the Commons”.

But what of those rare occasions, which seem to be becoming increasingly familiar, of national referendums? The Conservative Party’s manifesto pledge was clear in its intent that there should be reform, renegotiation and then a referendum on whether or not the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union. Hence, Members of your Lordships’ House worked in the spirit of the convention, with due care and attention, to pass the European Union Referendum Act 2015 expeditiously, even if some aspects have not worked out as we intended. I will not refer further at this stage to the Electoral Commission.

The decision to hold a referendum was intended to allow the people of the United Kingdom to decide a contentious issue that divides political parties. It goes to the core of democracy and offers one person, one vote. Can the Leader of the House confirm that in cases where the Government and Parliament have, in their wisdom, offered a referendum, the results of that referendum must stand whether or not Members of Parliament—elected or otherwise; of the other place or your Lordships’ House—like them? As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, noted earlier, certainty in politics is a luxury. We on these Benches want a vote to remain, but we are also clear that the views of the citizens must be respected whatever the outcome in two weeks’ time. Neither the Government nor Parliament should seek to circumvent the will of the people on this matter. Does the Leader of the House agree?

I turn to cases where manifestos are perhaps silent. Proposals came forward in the last Parliament that were not in any party’s manifesto. A case in point was the legislation introduced by my noble friend Lady Featherstone, which was given considerable support in your Lordships’ House by the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell, in a previous capacity. What arrangements could or should be in place for such initiatives coming forward from the Executive in the absence of any manifesto pledges? Are the current arrangements fit for purpose? Perhaps they are.

Conversely, and more significantly, what provisions do we have and envisage for cases where there is a strong voice from Parliament—usually in both Chambers —that legislation is needed or may need to change but the Government do not agree with that position? In particular, I am thinking of the case in the last Session relating to genocide, particularly the genocide in Syria of the Yazidis and Christian Syrians. The other place voted unanimously for a resolution on genocide but, so far, there has not been a clear response from the Government to that resolution. This issue is the subject of a Private Member’s Bill which is to be brought forward by the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, next Monday. The Bill reflects, in part, a concern that the United Kingdom is failing in its duties under the 1948 Convention on the Prevention of Genocide. This is not a manifesto commitment of any political party but it reflects the views of Members across all parties in both Chambers.

Will the Leader of the House comment not on the merits of that specific Bill but on the general principle of how the Government might respond in a timely and measured fashion to initiatives—not necessarily brought forward in Private Members’ Bills but in cases such as the resolution in the last Session—where there is clearly a strong will particularly in the elected Chamber and also in your Lordships’ House? Is there a way that the Government can listen and respond to widely held positions in order to re-empower Parliament and rebalance Executive/parliamentary relations?

EU Referendum: Voter Registration

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

Indeed, and that is exactly why we have been giving grants to civic societies to engage with the young. There have been several initiatives, one of which was the Make your Mark ballot: nearly 1 million young people aged 11 to 18 took part in deciding on issues such as mental health, the living wage and tackling religious discrimination. It is now statutory to teach democratic participation in schools at key stages 3 and 4 of the curriculum.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, referendums give the opportunity for everyone to decide on issues which sometimes divide political parties. Voter registration is clearly important; so too is participation. Does the Minister agree that televised debates can be an excellent way of engaging people and precipitating participation? If so, can she explain why a Prime Minister committed to campaigning “heart and soul” to remain in the European Union, alongside passionate pro-Europeans on this side of the House, is so reluctant to engage in the debate with Leave? Is he perhaps just frit?

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I understand where the noble Baroness is coming from, but there are lots of debates going on encouraging people to register and there will be debates on television and on the radio—I heard one this morning on Radio 4—so obviously that is a way of getting people to know what is going on.

UK Territorial Space: Spanish Incursions

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Courtown]

The noble Lord makes a good point. I noted that there was an increase in time but if we go back to 2013, the Spanish were accused of queues of almost seven hours at the border. It is a little less than that now. The noble Lord is quite right in drawing attention to delays that happened after the visit of the European Commission.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, in light of the some 300 or so incursions into British Gibraltan territorial waters in the first nine months of this year, are Her Majesty’s Government using all possible methods to liaise with the Spanish Government? Would matters be made better or worse were the United Kingdom not a member of the European Union?

[The Earl of Courtown]

I do not see the relevance of whether the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union. On the relationships between Spain and the United Kingdom over these incursions, the Spanish ambassador is summoned frequently. Summoning is a very serious form of diplomatic protest. The extent to which we have employed it is particularly unprecedented when we talk about an EU and NATO partner.

European Council

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Clearly, people will expect to see the results of the renegotiations and how the relationship with Europe has been changed and how these changes will address people’s concerns. The best thing for me to do is to quote the Chancellor, who told the other place in June that,

“the Treasury will publish assessments of the merits of membership and the risks of a lack of reform in the European Union, including the damage that that could do to Britain’s interests”.—[Official Report, Commons, 16/6/15; col. 166.]

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am very glad to hear that the Minister believes the Prime Minister will achieve the best for Britain. I wish I shared her confidence. Can she elaborate further on how the Prime Minister hopes to achieve reforms that benefit Europe as well as Britain? Could I add to the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and request that when the Prime Minister writes to the President of the European Council that a Statement is made in this place and in the other place to give Members the opportunity to discuss what the Prime Minister is requesting before he goes to the European Council in December, rather than being presented with a fait accompli?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has a record on achieving change in Europe and that is why I have every confidence in him being successful. As I have already rattled through in repeating this Statement, he has succeeded in cutting the European Union budget—I would argue that that was to the benefit of everybody in Europe and not just the people of the United Kingdom. He has made other changes which have been first in terms of the way in which a Prime Minister has dealt with Europe. As far as the way in which he will see changes in the terms of his renegotiations, one of the areas in which he wants to ensure that he sees change is for Europe to support all of us who are members to create more jobs and growth. If that is not of benefit to the whole of Europe, then I do not know what is.

European Council

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

In answer to the noble Lord’s first question, the good governance fund will come, initially at least, from the DfID budget. Secondly, I have made it clear that sanctions will remain in place until Minsk II is fully implemented. The importance of those sanctions, and of all members of Europe being united in keeping them in place until Minsk II is fully implemented, was agreed by all member states at the Council last week.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement—although I noticed that the noble Lord, Lord Lea, tried to intervene part of the way through. Perhaps that was because he thought that the wrong Statement had been passed to the Leader of the House and it was instead the Prime Minister’s draft notes for the leadership debates ahead of the general election. However, I assume that we are actually debating the Council conclusions and the responses to those. Paragraph 6 of the conclusions says:

“Member States and the Commission should step up efforts to communicate the benefits of the agreement”,

that is, the TTIP agreement,

“and to enhance dialogue with civil society”.

Does the Leader of the House agree that it is important to promote dialogue not just on TTIP but on many of the issues linked to that conclusion, including the European Semester, under which heading it, slightly bizarrely, falls? Should we not engage in further dialogue not only on that but also, more generally, on the benefits of British membership of the European Union, which all sides of your Lordships’ House strongly supported in a debate last November?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My noble friend is right to highlight the TTIP agreement—the Europe-US trade agreement. Once it is finally in place it will be worth a huge amount to the United Kingdom and all other members of the European Union. It is a good example of why membership of the European Union remains very important to us as a country.