Direction of Government

Debate between Baroness Smith of Basildon and Lord Bishop of Norwich

Wednesday 2nd September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord. He is right, and I have made this point; there have been a number of discussions and debates in this House on the issue. It is a difficult issue, and I know he is aware of its complications and how complex it is. I think it is understood that for people who have served significantly more than the sentences imposed on them at the time to be held so much longer is wrong. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, said that we should end the sentences and he was quite clear-cut, and across the House there has been quite a strong view on that.

When any prisoner is released, we have to deal with issues of public safety, whether that is on IPP, on early release or at the end of sentences. That is why we have invested so much additional money and support into the Probation Service; I think it was £700 million extra for recruiting new probation officers. I cannot give the noble and learned Lord an exact timetable for this, and I certainly could not promise to bring it back in October because the legislation has yet to be drafted—it was not drafted before, and we need to ensure that we get it right. Can I keep in contact with him on this? I am happy to do that and keep him informed. I am sure he will have views on how the legislation could be drafted. I will keep him and the House updated, but there will be no undue delay. This is something on which we want to move forward as quickly as we are able.

[The Lord Bishop of Norwich]

These Benches wish the Prime Minister well and assure him of our prayers. I welcome his attendance at COP 31 in Turkey in a couple of months’ time and that he recognises the impact of climate change—he referenced the glacial collapse at the Nepal-China border with tragic loss of life and this being the hottest summer on record. How can the Government work to rebuild the cross-party consensus that there was just a few years ago about the urgent need to take action for the common good for those who share this single island planet home, both now and in the future?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate. I am not sure it is a question that should be necessarily addressed to the Government; perhaps addressing it to the Opposition might be more helpful. But, yes, it would be good to have a cross-party consensus on the actions that need to be taken. It is quite clear that climate change has a devastating effect across the world and has consequences in the UK that need to be addressed. The Prime Minister’s attendance at COP has been signalled early on for a good reason—he wants it to be recognised that he will be there and wants to play a full part. As the issues progress, the right reverend Prelate will see matters coming forward to this House. The Prime Minister has been very clear, and I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for his comments about working together on these issues. This is a Prime Minister who has always had to work through consensus to get things done, and he has been clear that that is how he would rather progress things, so there will be discussions ongoing and I would hope to see greater support from the party opposite on these matters.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Smith of Basildon and Lord Bishop of Norwich

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Baroness’s description of the Prime Minister’s “performance” and of him feeling that he has to say things do not do justice to the gravity of the situation. It is not a performance; the Prime Minister holds strong views that we will work with our American allies, because the most important thing here is that we work with President Zelensky to seek peace. We want a stable and enduring peace, with Ukrainian sovereignty. Yes, the President did commit to Article 5 of NATO. and yes, one of the Government’s early commitments was defence and security co-operation with the EU.

[The Lord Bishop of Norwich]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the Statement and echo other comments in your Lordships’ House about the leadership that the Prime Minister has shown in recent days. In Norfolk last week, I spent time with some of the brave Ukrainian men and women who are being trained, over a very short five-week period, by the Irish Guards and instructors from a range of international allies under Operation Interflex, learning the vital skills that they need to defend their nation in the face of Putin’s illegal invasion. Will the Minister give assurances that this commitment to Operation Interflex and to train Ukrainian men and women remains absolutely ironclad and will continue for as long as it is needed?

Although support for the uplift of the defence budget has been shown on this Bench, we are disappointed that it has been achieved, after little debate, by taking from the overseas development budget. Building on the question from the noble Lord, Lord Newby, will the Minister accept that, if and when we go further and spend 3% of GDP on defence, we will need to have a wider public conversation about how that will be funded?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate. I think that most people are not aware of the depth and breadth of the support for Ukraine. He made a powerful point on training and Interflex. The answer to his question is yes, that does continue and we are committed to it. I understand the disappointment around the cut to the ODA budget. It was a great disappointment to us as well; it was done with no pleasure or glee. The right reverend Prelate may be aware of the comments made by the Prime Minister in the other place yesterday that he wants to

“work with others … across the House … on other ways of raising money and finance for development and aid overseas”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/3/25; col. 29.]

He has already met with the president of the World Bank to look at some of the options. We have a deeper commitment to returning to 0.7% as we are able to do so.

I think that the public are becoming more aware of the need for defence spending. It has been taken for granted for many years. We had the dividends of peace post the Cold War. The world is changing. We have to be part of that discussion and that awareness by doing our bit to explain to the public and engage with them on why this is necessary.