Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) (Amendment) (England) Order 2013

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 28th February 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords, first, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I shall comment on this one and on the next, too, so I need speak only once.

I have a desire for a reassurance that in all the contracting out of existing functions of local authorities, whether they have been previously contracted out or may be in future, exactly the same standards will apply on matters concerning data protection and in the duties, obligations and service standards of those to whom work is contracted out. I am thinking in particular of the role of bailiffs and what standards of service they will be required to work to. There has been a discussion and things have been done about this in the past year or two, but I seek the Minister’s assurance that exactly those same standards, or perhaps even better standards, will apply in future.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for speaking before me, because it has reminded me to say that I am also a vice-president of the Local Government Association, which I may have forgotten otherwise. The points that he made are ones that I would also have wished to make, and I will not repeat them. I refer particularly to the point on bailiffs, which was very well made, and I look forward to hearing the response from the Minister. I will come back to the freedom of information point.

I thank the Minister for her explanation, as it was good to have such a detailed explanation of the instruments. It answered a couple of the questions that I have, although I have others. Obviously, we support measures that would prevent fraud, detect it and take action against it, and any system of enforcement should be effective and fair. We entirely concur with those principles. My questions are on points of clarity, because I was not 100% clear. Legislation can sometimes be opaque, and it would be helpful to have some more information.

As the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, was saying, when services are contracted out, particularly in this case, very detailed confidential financial information can be provided to a private company or organisation. I understand that under data protection legislation, the responsibility would remain with the local authority, but would the DCLG give any guidance to local authorities on how they may enforce their responsibilities to organisations to which they have contracted out those services? What redress would remain available to an individual who felt that their confidentiality had been breached in any way? Would that remain a matter for the local authority, or would responsibility lie with the company that held the information and had inadvertently or wrongly released it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hanham]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for their questions, which were, as I would have suspected, practical and straightforward, and I shall try to deal with them in that way.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked about data protection. It is correct that local authorities remain the responsible authority, even though they have contracted out to a private company or have made alternative arrangements. They are responsible for ensuring that the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 are met. That position has not changed; that is the way it is at the moment.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, also talked about bailiffs. The use of bailiffs has worried this House for some time. We are very clear that aggressive bailiff activity is completely unacceptable, and we are committed to bringing forward effective proposals to protect the public and ensure that they act proportionately. The proposals are to implement Part 3 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, which would provide legal protection by introducing a comprehensive code that governed, among other things, when and how bailiffs can enter somebody’s premises, what goods they can and cannot seize if necessary and sell, and what fees they can charge. Aggression, force and enforced sale are more or less the complaints that we have heard all along, and we are trying to deal with them.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

Is the Minister also aware of circumstances recently when bailiffs entered people’s homes to try to remove property but the poverty was such that they could retrieve nothing to sell anyway?

[Baroness Hanham]

I know that that matter has been raised, but that will be covered by what we are trying to do with the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. The noble Baroness is correct that if there is nothing there that enables a debt to be dealt with, bailiffs ought to report that to local authorities and not just go ahead. We have had a lot of discussions on bailiffs and the Government are very sympathetic to what has been said. Efforts will be made to try to restore some confidence in the bailiff service, which is not very strong at the moment.

The data protection standards will, as I have already said to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, remain as at present, with the local authorities being responsible for them. I think the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked what an offence committed by a body corporate is. It is when an offence has been proved to be committed with the consent or connivance of, or attributed to any neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary, or other similar officer purporting to act in any capacity. The number of occasions when a body corporate may be involved in an individual’s council tax seems to me to be remarkably slim, but it is there just in case.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

Perhaps I was not very clear. I was asking—

[Baroness Hanham]

I am sorry, am I answering the right question?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

No, I think not. My question was about corporate bodies in relation to the power to require information by the authorised officer. Regulation 6 is entitled, “Delay, obstruction etc of authorised officer”. It refers only to an individual, but an authorised officer can require an organisation or a body to provide information. I do not think that that is the question that the noble Baroness is answering. I am happy for her to write to me on that.

[Baroness Hanham]

I shall write to the noble Baroness, if she does not mind, on the people who are entitled to ask for information. I apologise for not answering her question correctly.

The proof of intention to commit an offence is not very easy, but it can be obtained or come from information that is made available, such as anonymous tip-offs, discrepancies between records that people become concerned about, reports of fraud from the DWP, and so on. It may not appear very often, but there are areas where it would be possible to demonstrate intention.

I hope that I have more or less picked up all the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. As I say, they are essentially practical, but if I have missed any, I will come back, but as I say, I hope that I have addressed the main points.