Prisons (Property) Bill

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Friday 18th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, one of the great attractions of Private Members’ Bills is that they often provide an opportunity to bring forward a non-controversial measure that is so straightforward and makes such sense that one is left wondering why it has not been done before. This appears to be one such Bill, and I welcome the fact that it does not seek to be overly complex, as sometimes can seem the case with legislation. I concur with the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, in congratulating Stuart Andrew on bringing this Bill forward in the other place and welcome the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has brought it to your Lordships’ House.

I suspect that most people, had they given this issue much thought, would have assumed that the powers this Bill seeks to provide were already in place. My understanding is that governors, officers, parliamentarians and others will welcome the Bill because of the clarity it provides about the powers held by a prison governor or director. The aim of the legislation is clear and realistic, as we have heard. It will allow a governor of a prison, young offender institution or secure training centre to,

“destroy or otherwise dispose of”—

including by selling—any unauthorised property. Unauthorised property includes items that are unlawful to possess. We all know that unauthorised items such as drugs and mobile phones are found in prisons.

My first position in government was as Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Prisons Minister—now the noble Lord, Lord Boateng—and it does appear that, whatever the level of security, these items still find their way into prisons. Clearly, this proposed legislation does not mean that the work to address that issue will not continue, but it is in itself a useful, practical and sensible measure.

However, if the issue of drugs, knives, mobile phones and iPhones getting into prisons could be tackled, this Bill would not be needed—or would be rarely used. I will take this opportunity to ask the Minister about the action being taken to stop such unauthorised and sometimes illegal items getting into prisons. I am happy to have that in writing because it is the central problem that this Bill is seeking to address.

Although it has been argued that items can be stored in a prison for a certain period and returned to the prisoner on release, as we have heard, not only does the cost of that storage fall on the National Offender Management Service but there is the issue of whether it is appropriate to hold and return unauthorised items. I cannot imagine anyone suggesting that illegal items should be returned to prisoners on release. The current rules state that any article belonging to a prisoner that remains unclaimed for more than a year after he leaves prison, or a year after his death, may be sold or otherwise disposed of. But at present governors cannot destroy property, even unauthorised property, if the prisoner says they want it returned at some later date.

As we have heard, mobile phones are some of the most commonly found items in prisons. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, did the House a service by being very clear about the dangers and problems that are caused by mobile phones in prison. In case anyone is in doubt, the use of mobile phones in prison is not a benign or minor infringement of the rules. I vividly recall, when I was a Member of the other place, the case of a constituent whose daughter had been murdered. The man convicted of the murder used a mobile phone to telephone the press about the case, and articles based on the interviews with him were profoundly distressing to my constituent. There are several more detailed aspects to that case that are not relevant to this debate, but I use it to illustrate the point—which was also very well made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham—that the rule not to allow mobile phones in prison is there for very good reasons.

Clearly, mobile phones are legal outside prison—although some people who travel on public transport might have doubts about that—and it could be argued that these should be returned to a prisoner on release. Few prisoners would confess that a phone was theirs, and it is not always easy to identify ownership, so it is not always possible to return the phone to its “rightful” owner, and this Bill clarifies what should happen in such situations.

Following the High Court ruling in the case of Coleman in 2009, I understand—and it has been confirmed by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham—that governors have been told that they do not have a general power to confiscate permanently or destroy a prisoner’s property, although they had previously done so. I also understand that items had been sold in the past and profits or proceeds have been made available to Nacro.

We are very supportive of this Bill, but it would be helpful to have some clarification on just a couple of issues. Will the Bill remove any possibility of legal challenge, as in the Coleman case, and ensure that there is not a case for compensation from prisoners for their property after they have left prison? What consideration has been given to how items will be disposed of? We have all read and heard reports of where computers have not been wiped. There is clearly a need to ensure that if items such as mobile phones, including iPhones, and small notebooks have information stored on them, it is removed before they are sold. Will the Government issue guidance on whose responsibility that will be and what should happen to the proceeds of any sales? I know that in the other place, although it was accepted that Nacro was an appropriate body to receive such proceeds, it was asked whether Victim Support could also be included. Other organisations may wish to be considered, but I suspect that we are not talking about vast sums of money.

This is a sensible Bill; it clarifies the law; and it has our support.