House of Lords Reform
Baroness Sanderson of Welton Excerpts(1 week, 2 days ago)
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Baroness Sanderson of Welton (Con)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness. I was going to admit that I am slightly nervous of speaking in this debate because I see myself as quite a new Member, so I congratulate her on leaping in where I fear to tread. Along with everyone else in this Chamber, I care very much about this place, so I would feel remiss in not taking part in the latest conversation about its reform and the wider issue of our standing and reputation.
As has been said, we all know the valuable work that we do in this place, yet the chasm between the public perception and the reality of what we do is vast. Our Press Gallery is rarely frequented and the public’s view of us is not exactly positive. A while back, I had a call from a journalist colleague whom I had not spoken to for some years. He was doing a story on the House of Lords. “Oh dear”, I said. “I suppose it’s not good news?” He laughed. “No, Liz. It’s never good news when it’s the House of Lords”.
Why is that? It is partly because that is the way it has always been. In truth, the Lords has always had an image problem. For centuries, right through to the 1950s, the reputational threat came from non-attending Peers. In more recent years, as we have heard, criticism has been focused on the increasing size of the House. However, as others have asked, is that the root cause of the problems we face? It certainly does not help but, as my noble friend Lord Wakeham said, when you get down to it, I am not sure this is about the numbers.
As we know, there are currently just over 800 Members. This compares to similar numbers for most of the last half of last century. For part of that time, attendance was indeed low—in the 1953-54 Session there was a daily average of just 97 Peers. More recently, average attendance has stayed constant: an average of 418 in 2006-07 and 396 in 2022-23. I mention this because, contrary to received wisdom, we need those people to keep turning up week in, week out, roll up their sleeves and get on with the work of this House. On a purely practical level, I disagree with the Government’s proposed reform of removing the hereditary Peers given how they box above their weight, as my noble friend Lord Reay rightly said.
It is not just numbers; the Government say the reform will bring “immediate modernisation”. It will show that we are different now. Perhaps it will in the short term, but really it will just reinforce that discrepancy between the public perception and the reality of what happens in this place. I genuinely believe that the knowledge and insight that our hereditary colleagues bring to legislation is unique and valuable. Is it born of privilege? Yes, but in all honesty I do not have a problem with that. The hereditaries have chosen to put that privilege to good use by putting themselves forward for a by-election. I do not care if they are a Duke or an Earl. So many want to work just like the rest of us and it would be wrong to throw away the benefit of their experience.
In addition, removing them will not address the fundamental problem of accountability. Personally, I am far more interested in the Government’s proposal for a participation requirement, which could bring about more meaningful change. As it stands, the public think we get paid with their money to swan in and out and do very little along the way. This view is usually reinforced by the Sunday Times, which often writes about X Peer who has spoken only X number of times in the Chamber while taking X amount of money. As the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, said, such examples damage us all, even if in some instances they do not always give the full picture.
There are so many ways that people contribute to the work of this place, be that voting, taking part in legislation, advocacy or membership of committees. I would be in favour of some kind of metric to assess the participation of Peers. Those who do not wish to take part should not be able to claim expenses, but it is reasonable for those who do to be paid for their time and effort. It is necessary work and we should not be ashamed of that. Such a proposal would need careful thought and proper consultation, but to my mind it would be of far greater value than the reforms currently on the table.
Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase 2 Report
Baroness Sanderson of Welton Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
Yes; the noble Baroness is right that we have to engage with those who will be directly affected. Work is ongoing on that now. On the point about sprinklers, it is one of many solutions in terms of reducing the risk of damage from fire. Sometimes it can actually be quite difficult to do. All options are open in looking at how to ensure that buildings are safe.
Baroness Sanderson of Welton (Con)
My Lords, the Leader makes a very good point about anger. If that is how it made us feel, can you imagine how difficult that report must have been for the victims last week? “Systemic dishonesty”, “persistent indifference”, “basic neglect”, “a cavalier attitude”—all terms used by Sir Martin to describe the behaviour of everyone involved, from the manufacturers and contractors to national and local government and the oversight and regulatory bodies.
Sir Martin has made a series of carefully considered recommendations. I mention just one, recommendation 113.4, and declare a similar interest regarding the committee I am on:
“We recommend that it be made a legal requirement for the government to maintain a publicly accessible record of recommendations made by select committees, coroners and public inquiries together with a description of the steps taken in response”.
Progress on recommendations obviously needs to be made, but victims and survivors also need to be able to see that progress is being made. So will this be one of those areas for early work that the Prime Minister outlined last week?
Finally, will the department look at the excellent monitoring system devised by the Home Office in response to the phase 1 recommendations? It is very easy to navigate and far more accessible than the usual GOV.UK updates but, inexplicably, it still has not been put into use.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
I pay tribute to the noble Baroness for her work, commitment and support for the victims of those in Grenfell; I know that she has visited the site and met them. I know how deep her commitment is—led, I think, by the anger that we all feel—and pay tribute to her for that also.
She is absolutely right: as we move forward on this, those who have been involved in supporting Grenfell survivors and those who themselves survived are going to need confidence; the Prime Minister referred to this in his Statement. It takes more than just words to reassure them that action has been taken. We need to look at an appropriate format so that it is easily understood what has been done, what is about to be done and the timescales. He has committed to come back with a full response “within six months”. I know that he and the team are looking now at what can be done within that time so I will take back the noble Baroness’s comments and, if there are examples of how it has been done in the past with open access, that would be a good thing to look at as a model.