Media: Ownership
Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Kinnock
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, plurality in the context of media ownership refers to the number of owners and size of ownership of different media outlets and does not cover diversity, as the noble Baroness mentioned. I am sure all noble Lords agree that a healthy democracy needs correct information, and, in general, to be able to participate effectively in a political process, access is needed to all sides of the debate. However, this is unlikely to happen if the media are under the control of a too tightly restricted number of owners.
Lord Kinnock
My Lords, as the monopoly of opinion is the most fearful of all monopolies, is it not the case that the accretion of power in the media should at least be subject to the same tests of competition as all other forms of enterprise?
Baroness Rawlings
The noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, makes a very valid point. In most cases, competition rules will prevent unacceptable levels of media concentration. However, there is no guarantee of that, because competition rules address only the abuse of market power. It is possible for an organisation to have a very large share of the market but not abuse its position for unfair competitive advantage. This would be acceptable in competition terms but it could still cause very real worries from the point of view of media influence, as the noble Lord said.
Arts: Regional Theatres
Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Kinnock
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, I do not have the details of that here, but I very much hope so. I will write to the noble Lord with the answer.
Lord Kinnock
Does the noble Baroness accept that while we can all share in the pride that the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, feels in the theatre of which he is patron, quality has not been the major determinant of the cuts inflicted on the Arts Council and by the Arts Council? There are many companies up and down the country, in London and in the regions, that are recognised to have world-quality status but have had their funding savagely reduced.
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, is not quite right. The overall budget for the Arts Council will be reduced by just 11 per cent over four years. This is hardly going from feast to famine.
Phone Hacking
Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Kinnock
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Fowler for his intervention, and I agree totally with him that this should not be a party-political matter. This has been ongoing for several years, as he has clearly pointed out. We should take a step back, which is exactly what the Secretary of State is doing. The Government are determined to find out all that the journalists and their agents were up to in hacking into phone messages, and what the police knew, when they knew, and what they did about it—and how we might learn the lessons for the future. That is why the Prime Minister announced last Wednesday that there would be two inquiries, both of which will be fully independent. I note that my noble friend Lord Fowler has been asking for these inquires for a very long time now. The first will be an independent judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the specific revelations and allegations. It will look at why the police investigation that started in 2006 failed, what was going on in the News of the World, and what was going on in other newspapers. The second inquiry will be a review, and will look at the wider lessons for the future of the press. We intend that work can start at the earliest opportunity—ideally, this summer.
Lord Kinnock
My Lords, does the Minister share my deep concern, which I am certain extends across this House, that today News Corporation has withdrawn its previous undertaking to hive off Sky News? Does the noble Baroness recall that Mr Murdoch told a Select Committee of this House that,
“Sky News would be more popular if it was more like Fox News”,
and made what he called “the presentational progress” achieved by that notoriously biased channel, which he owns, in the United States of America? Does she think that with those instincts and judgments Mr Murdoch could ever be a fit and proper person to have ownership and control of 40 per cent of BSkyB, let alone the whole of it?
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, asks a question which comes to the heart of the matter and the responsibilities of the Secretary of State. There are rules in this country on plurality, and we have talked about these on several occasions. As to whether Mr Murdoch is a fit and proper person, the “fit and proper” statutory test is a matter for Ofcom, which is taking its duties in this area very seriously and is already in touch with the relevant authorities. The Government have no role in its decisions and have not sought to influence it in one way or another. This is an ongoing situation, and the plurality matter that the noble Lord raises is of the utmost importance.
News Corporation/BSkyB Merger
Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Kinnock
Lord Kinnock
My Lords, my personal affection and respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Rawlings, make me accept from her that this is not a final decision. May I put it to her that if it does not bear close similarity to the final decision when it is made, noble Lords across the House are prepared to be utterly astounded with delight and shocked to their roots? Can I also put it to her that what she has told us this afternoon means that Sky News will by owned by the people and interests who own BSkyB, including 39 per cent by Murdoch interests? Does that not make the same mockery of independence that is evident elsewhere in the Murdoch empire, including the Wall Street Journal and our own Times in this country? Is it not clear that the Secretary of State has accepted this arrangement as a quid pro quo for allowing Mr Murdoch to take complete ownership of BSKyB, and is it not evident that this is a handsome pay-off for the support given by News International to the Conservative Party during the election?
Baroness Rawlings
I cannot say anything about the final decision that the noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, has asked for. This is still open to consultation until a certain date, and it will be very interesting. The Secretary of State will then look at it all. There will be independent shareholdings. The Murdoch press will own 39 per cent, but the rest will be open to the public. It is a little unfair of the noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, to criticise the Secretary of State. He has made this absolutely clear right from the beginning. Everything is published and available in the Library—papers of every meeting are available for scrutiny by anyone who wants to do so. If people have been worried about anything at any stage, he has always seen them. So I think he is being a little tough.