Public Bodies Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Rawlings]

I am coming to that a bit later, but it is taking longer every time somebody interrupts. I will get to that point.

The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, asked whether the licence fee money could go directly to S4C from DCMS. Discussions between S4C and the BBC are ongoing. However, the BBC Trust is the established guardian of the licence fee, as set out in the royal charter and the agreement, and we do not see this position changing.

Following the Government’s decision to table an amendment to remove Clause 11 and Schedule 7 from the Bill, S4C will not appear in Schedule 7 as previously tabled and referenced in Amendment 164. Consequently, we are now exploring further options for how S4C’s proposed constitutional arrangements can be given legal effect. I can reassure the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, that it is the clear view of the Government that we have no intention of abolishing S4C.

In a letter to the Prime Minister on 29 October 2010 the leaders of all four major parties in the Welsh Assembly stated that they,

“recognise the difficult financial climate and … no body that is in receipt of public money can be exempt from funding cuts”.

These reforms simply reflect this reality in a way that will protect S4C’s future and not undermine it, as my noble friend Lord Roberts said.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, I hope I make this point sincerely and in an attempt to assist the situation. At the moment, the funding of S4C is tied to RPI under Section 61A of the Broadcasting Act 1990. That can be changed without putting S4C into Schedule 4. That is the short point. Speaking for myself and, I suspect, many others, I will be delighted to support such an amendment on Report. It can be done quite simply and effectively.

[Baroness Rawlings]

I will come to the point made by the noble Lord. I appreciate the way in which the noble Lord, Lord Nickson has approached this debate; it is to be commended. He has arrived open-minded and will be persuaded by the strength of the argument. It is an example of your Lordships’ House at its best and I hope that he has been persuaded. This has been an impassioned debate, but not on party lines, as the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, said. It has been on the actual subject. We fully recognise, as the noble Lord, Lord Richard, rightly said, the iconic status of the channel and the contribution it makes to the cultural and economic life of Wales and to the Welsh language.

We have had a really good and interesting debate today. We are all united here in the Chamber in wanting a secure future for S4C. We have had lengthy dialogues with Cardiff to secure the future of S4C within the BBC partnership with DCMS funding. The problem lies, as had been mentioned by many noble Lords, with the index-linked funding, which is not viable anymore. Public service broadcasting is for all parts of the United Kingdom and it is not devolved. S4C’s editorial independence and its distinct entity, as the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, said, are of paramount importance. I share the passion of my noble friend Lord Roberts and all noble Lords who have supported the amendment. I understand it and of course I, along with my noble friend Lord Taylor, am fully prepared and willing to have a discussion next week to go through many of the points that have been brought up today. I therefore ask my noble friend to withdraw the amendment.

Broadcasting: S4C

Debate between Baroness Rawlings and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Thursday 28th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord is right, and that point has been brought up many times. The exact level of funding is not yet set beyond 2014-15. While future funding will reflect overlaps and efficiencies, it will remain consistent with the commitment to a strong and independent Welsh language TV service.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that the position of the Welsh channel is wholly unique? Does she appreciate that this channel was established 28 years ago after a long and bitter campaign of civil disobedience and law-breaking in Wales, and that although Parliament has the right to change the legislative structure which was set up to protect and preserve the Welsh language, to do so would mean reneging on a compact made between the Home Secretary of the day, the late William Whitelaw, and the Welsh people?

[Baroness Rawlings]

I agree with the noble Lord that it is unique. That is important and it is why the Government have stressed that S4C should continue to be properly funded. A new governance structure will be required to deliver the partnership with the BBC. The BBC Trust and the S4C Authority will need to agree jointly the strategic goals and broad editorial requirements and hold S4C to account for their delivery. This structure will be up and running by 2012-13.