Media: S4C

Baroness Rawlings Excerpts

Wednesday 5th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they held with governors or executives of the BBC during July and August in relation to the future of the S4C channel.

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, I know and understand the conviction and intense interest that the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, and other noble Lords have in S4C. Officials in DCMS held discussions with the BBC in July and August regarding the future of S4C, and those discussions are continuing—as the noble Lord will be aware from all this summer’s Written Questions.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, as the Secretary of State has recently laid an amendment to the BBC framework agreements stating that after 2015 it will be a matter for the BBC to determine how much funding it will give to S4C from the licence fee, and as the Government have also recently tabled an amendment to the Public Bodies Bill putting responsibility on to the Secretary of State to ensure that S4C is adequately funded after 2015, will the Minister confirm that after 2015 the Government will determine year-on-year how much funding S4C needs and will make up any shortfall in the money provided by the BBC?

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, wrote to the Secretary of State on 14 September on these and similar points. As the noble Lord knows, the next Committee sitting on the Public Bodies Bill in the other place will be on 11 October, and that will cover S4C. We understand and appreciate the noble Lord’s concerns about the financial provisions of S4C and its ministerial independence. I can reassure him that following the government amendment in the other place which he mentioned, the Bill now places a duty on the Secretary of State to make certain that S4C is funded at a level sufficient to meet its statutory remit. This provision will provide security for S4C’s long-term future.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that our understanding about the relationship between S4C and the BBC has been greatly undermined by the comments of David Heath in the other place? Does she also agree that an S4C authority with equal representation by the BBC and S4C would be unworkable, result in deadlock and could endanger the new partnership that we are all keen to see succeed?

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, I can confirm that the BBC will not have a majority on either the S4C board or the S4C executive, and the relationship between S4C and the BBC will be on the basis of a partnership and not of a BBC subsidiary. The partnership will start, as the noble Lord knows, from April 2013. I know how important this is to several noble Lords.

[Lord Roberts of Conwy]

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the BBC appears to have been flexing its financial muscle in these recent negotiations? It is of course seeking to exercise domination over the governance of S4C, which might end up with a BBC satellite service as opposed to the independent service that we all want and have agreed upon. Will the same kind of behaviour on the part of the BBC be allowed to happen to the local television stations that are also to be financed from licence fee sources?

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, I understand my noble friend Lord Roberts’ concern about S4C, as he was its original founder, but I should like to reassure him that the amended BBC agreement which has been laid in Parliament states that there will be new governance arrangements. This will happen only when they have been agreed by S4C, the BBC and DCMS. Naturally, there will be a balance and it will not be dominated by the BBC.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

Does the Minister understand that there is immense concern in Wales about the delay over so many months in reaching an arrangement between the BBC and S4C? The chairman has been appointed; I welcome the appointment very much. Ministers have stressed the need for independence of S4C. Is the BBC using its muscle, as the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, said, and putting too much pressure on S4C in the discussions? When they reach a point of agreement, will it be with the personal approval of the Secretary of State?

[Baroness Rawlings]

The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right on that point, but the Government are not delaying. The officials at DCMS are working with S4C and the BBC Trust on the governance structure of their new partnership. The new chairman has been appointed and the appointment has gone down very well. Mr Heath said in the other place that he hoped that the negotiations will be completed by Report in the other place.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

Has discussion taken place between the Welsh Assembly Government, DCMS here, S4C and the BBC? It is so important that all sides involved in the fourth channel, the Welsh language channel, are brought into those discussions to ensure that we have no problems whatever of funding or independence in future.

[Baroness Rawlings]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very valid point. The Government are fully aware and have set out the funding levels for the period of the spending review, subject to the passage of the Bill, and are committed to making certain that S4C receives sufficient funding for the future. The Government have made clear that that 100 per cent of S4C’s commissioning budget will be spent in the independent sector, as now.

[Lord Touhig]

Do the Government understand that the statutory funding formula for S4C is not simply important in maintaining Welsh language television, it is very important to sustaining the creative industries in Wales?

[Baroness Rawlings]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. The Government understand that and are committed to the future of Welsh language programming and of S4C as a strong, independent Welsh television service. The best way to make certain that S4C has a strong and lasting future is through partnership with the BBC.