Education and Adoption Bill

Debate between Baroness Perry of Southwark and Baroness Pinnock

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

My Lords, I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Watson, as I did to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, in the earlier debate about consultation. A question which seems not to have been answered in what they ask for is: what would happen if the staff and parents decided that they did not want the change? Let us suppose they decided that they did not want anything to change and that this failing school, which was in dire straits, was the one that they wanted and liked. What would the people whom the noble Lord so rightly characterises as those who care deeply about the welfare of children in the school then do? Would they give in to the parents and staff and say, “All right”?

The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said that it could be all over in six weeks. I am sorry, but it would not be if the parents were making a terrible fuss and saying, “We like our school the way it is”. I have been involved in a change in a school which, without any doubt, was a total failure. It had vacancies of more than 15% and a 14% success rate of five good GCSEs among its pupils. But the parents sat there and said to me, “We like our school the way it is. Don’t you touch our school”. I tried to say to them, “Don’t you mind that your children’s chances are very limited? They are only going to have a very slim chance of getting five GCSEs and of having a future”, and so on. But what do you do if it goes wrong? The only way this idea of consultation would work is if you go back to what the Government are saying about information and you tell people what happens. You cannot consult if the result of the consultation will be an answer that you cannot accept.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, considering that the noble Baroness, Lady Perry, has referred to a tiny speech I made earlier this evening, I will just expand on the views that we take on this side.

First, none of us wants a failing school to continue to fail. That is in absolutely nobody’s interest. Secondly, all of us who have been involved in local communities over the years—as those of us on this side have—understand that parents get very attached to what they know and are often therefore reluctant to see it change, However, if a school is failing, change it must. It was the 2006 Act, I think—although I could be wrong—that enabled local authorities to intervene. In my experience, they do that: my local authority does. It can intervene by completely changing the board of governors and putting in its own governing body, with nominations made by the local authority, which can then change the head teacher. Then you work with parents to explain to them and get them to understand that they should not be putting up with this poor-quality education for their children. Change can then happen.

One example of that is a school about three miles away from where I live which was in special measures. The local authority removed the governing body—without its consent—and put in its own people, who were experienced governors from elsewhere, plus nominations from the local authority. The head teacher was changed, and that school was judged to be good in its recent Ofsted report. That seems to me to have achieved what we all want to see achieved, which is that no child should have to suffer education in a failing school. So it can be done, but if you are going to have long-term success, you have to take the confidence of the parents with you, because they play an absolutely critical role in ensuring that their children succeed. I repeat again that that is what we on this side want to achieve. It can be done.