Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

My Lords, I was immensely privileged to be co-opted over many years as the only lay woman in a group of the most senior women in the Church of England, who for many years had a residential meeting once a year in the beautiful St George’s House within Windsor Castle. Those women had become quite senior—they were archdeacons or deans—but, alas, they had banged their heads against the concrete ceiling which the church, my church, had then imposed upon them. I cannot tell you of the immense pain which many of those women suffered with the feeling that their own church, which they loved and served, still did not recognise the potential that they had. As a lay member of that group and the church, I say how infinitely humiliating it was to feel that the church that I loved—and, if I may say so, that I found it increasingly difficult to love—continued to reject the potential of those wonderful women within it, who performed at all sorts of levels in the church in a way which made it so greatly enriched by the work that they did.

I feel that I speak in this House for those women, because they are not here today. I listened to their stories over those many years when we met. The one thing which I think was most outstanding about them was their immense patience. They put up with the way that they were treated. One woman who was extremely senior—I will not mention her role—had to work with male colleagues who refused to take the host when she was officiating and met without her at key meetings because they did not wish to have her voice heard. There were women who were criticised because their high heels clonked as they walked in procession up the aisle of the church, and so on. There were unbelievable stories and yet they remained patient and conciliatory. They were willing to give and to understand the views of those who disagreed with them and wanted to continue to reject them and their calling. These were women who genuinely felt that they had a vocation to serve in the church, not women who were trying to push themselves forward because they wanted promotion, yet time and again their sense of vocation had to be put to one side.

I simply want to put on the record the immense courage and patience which those women showed in all the negotiations, which were painful. If you are on the receiving end of a refusal of recognition, it is not much fun; yet, as I say, they continued to work patiently with the people who disagreed with them and wished to exclude them, giving concession after concession over the years. I cannot tell you how immensely happy I am at the passing of this Measure today. I remember one occasion when we were meeting down in Windsor and were joined by the wonderful Bishop Wolf from America. I speak of the immensely moving moment when, after a couple of days of Bishop Wolf being simply Jo—she was just one of the girls when we were all chatting, having our breakfast and lunch or in our discussions together, and so on—at the end of our meeting, the person who was chairing it turned to her and said, “Bishop, would you give us your blessing as we leave?”. The moment when a woman stood up and gave me her blessing as a bishop was one of the most moving of my life. I look forward very much to having this in my own church, here in England and in the United Kingdom. I welcome the Measure.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 (Consequential and Contrary Provisions and Scotland) Order 2014

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Wakefield]

It would seem odd to me if I were to just sit here silently after people, particularly the noble Baroness, have said what they have. First, I am sure that no one in the House of Bishops would have approached with anything other than irony the fact that the statement was issued on 14 February. Secondly, I entirely associate myself with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Alli, about Uganda and other countries where such repressive measures have been taken. I am fairly certain that no one in the House of Bishops would want to say anything different.

The next thing to say is that, without any sense of disloyalty to the college to which I belong, there was a variety of opinion on how we should approach the problem. It is a problem because we are dealing with a very long tradition, set out in the Book of Common Prayer. For a church that has a tradition that now goes back 450 years in what it has been saying about marriage, to move in a significantly different direction is a significant shift. There will be a variety of opinions, but that is an issue.

The second issue refers to what the noble Lord, Lord Alli, was touching on. We are part of a worldwide communion. One very difficult thing for a worldwide communion is somehow to balance being sensitive to different cultural values in different places. By different cultural values, I do not mean repressive measures being passed in Acts by Governments, which none of us would support. That puts us in a particularly difficult position, because all the time we are trying to ensure that we listen to what people here are saying and what people’s consciences here are saying but, at the same time, to stay with the communion.

Back in the 1988 Lambeth conference, when there was a fairly heated debate about polygamy in some African countries, the western provinces in the Anglican communion worked very hard, saying, “We understand that you are in a different place from where we are, and we are not going to take a hard line on this at the moment”. We have not yet got to that position in the communion. For me to stay other than loyal to the House of Bishops’ statement would be more than irresponsible, because I know that one real concern is that it is not just about us and the Church of England, it is also about the Anglican communion. That is a key issue, and may not have been made quite as clear as it might have been when the statement was issued.

As your Lordships will see, I am not speaking from a prepared text. I think that there is universal concern in the Church of England that we move away from any sense of homophobia and do all that we can to affirm people in different sorts of relationships, but, at the moment, that is where the house finds itself, because it had to respect the consciences of people bringing very different opinions.

I hope that that makes it clear to the House that that was not being done in an unthinking, hardhearted or insensitive way—it was certainly not intended to be—but your Lordships will be very pleased to hear that every Bishop, as far as I know, who is a Member of the House received an envelope last week with a note reading, “With compliments for your pastoral sensitivity”, and the envelope included a humbug.

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

My Lords, as one who was blessed with more than 50 years of a very happy marriage, I think it is appropriate just to pause for a moment to give tribute to marriage itself. I am so very happy for my many gay friends that they will be able to participate in something which is one of the great blessings to human beings. I join in the congratulations to my noble friend and her colleagues on having brought this legislation forward, and on speeding up the timetable and the processes. I know how very much it means to so many of my very good friends. I know that at least one of the couples who are very good friends of mine, and who are in a civil partnership, like the noble Lord, are eagerly waiting for the point at which it will be possible to translate that into a marriage.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet (Lab)]

My Lords, I did not intend to speak, but I am one of the Members of this House who was bridesmaid to my noble friend Lord Collins. I have forgotten how many years ago. All of us are now Peers in this House. All of us dressed up beautifully; I am just worried what we will have to wear the second time round, because we are all a bit older and it is a bit more difficult to get us into the things that we wore before.

I warmly welcome this. Obviously, knowing the noble Lords, I know exactly how sincere they are in wanting this to happen. I am sure everybody agrees with that. I firmly believe that we should not be embarrassed to congratulate the Government. If the Government are doing good things, we should acknowledge that. It would be good if we had that reciprocal arrangement all the time in the House. Nevertheless I am a pragmatist. I congratulate unreservedly the noble Baroness on the work that she has done. It is tremendous. I share the joy that people are feeling at this moment in the House.

Travel to School: Rural Areas

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness may have misunderstood or misheard what I said. What I emphasised was that the bursaries that are now given are more generous. They are targeted at those who are most vulnerable. She may very well feel that the others who do not now get the EMA may have a need that she identifies, but I am pointing out to her that the bursary is better targeted in that it is focusing on the most vulnerable and it is providing more to them, which I am sure noble Lords would support.

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

Following on from the right reverend Prelate’s intervention, does my noble friend agree that rather than closing rural schools it might sometimes make sense to bus the children from an overcrowded city school and take them out to the pleasant air of a country school so that they could enjoy the very good teaching that one often finds in small rural schools?

[Baroness Northover]

That is a novel and interesting idea and I should think the children would welcome that. But as I said earlier, we have special funding to try to keep open some of these rural schools. In doing my research for this, one thing that I was encouraged by was the fact that 48% of primary schoolchildren in Britain walk to school, and I think that is excellent.

Education: Proficiency Levels

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, we are well aware of the importance of ensuring that we have sufficient numbers of maths teachers, and have been putting a great deal of effort into this. We recruited 2,230 maths teachers in 2013-14, and we are continuing to focus efforts on recruiting the best graduates for the subjects we need most, which of course include maths. We have increased the number of maths places and the scholarships for teacher training. These scholarships amount to £25,000. We have increased the value of maths bursaries because we need to attract the top graduates. We have also introduced bursaries for graduates with good A-levels in maths or physics who train to teach maths, because we recognise the importance of what my noble friend is saying.

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the hugely encouraging increase in performance that has taken place in many of the new academies bodes very well for the results of the PISA in three years’ time, when the young people who have been through them will be tested?

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

Perhaps I may respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes. Ofsted’s category of “needing improvement” does not close a nursery down; other children will continue to be there. Also, if a parent has strong reasons for choosing a local nursery, where perhaps children of friends and neighbours are already attending, a parent should not be banned from making that choice, despite knowing what the Ofsted judgment is. As the noble Baroness rightly said, that judgment could be out of date and the improvement could have happened in the mean time. It would be wrong to condemn a child to being unable to go to the nursery of parental choice just because three or so years ago Ofsted declared that it needed improvement. It is more important that parents have a choice, knowing what they are choosing. The Ofsted report is there for everyone to see and make inquiries about, and there may be powerful reasons for a parent to want a child to go to that nursery. As I say, other children are still going there, it is not being closed down and it is not being put into special measures.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, have considerable concerns about Clause 76, and my noble friend Lady Tyler explained our concerns very well. I do not deny that there are problems with the Section 11 duty, and many local authorities want the Government to do something about it. In fact, the reports have become a bit of a monster and some local authorities do not regard them as terribly useful. However, to repeal the whole duty is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. My noble friend has suggested a sensible alternative and I support her view.

I, too, look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say. If the Government were to change their mind about this, and simply change the guidance, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, that it would make a lot of sense to have some kind of standard template so that different local authorities could be compared with each other. Both policymakers and those who disseminate best practice would find it very useful to be able to compare apples with apples and not apples with pears. I also look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say about the word “normally” in relation to inadequate nurseries. That, too, gives me some concern.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Perry of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Ramsbotham]

I rise to support this amendment, and to speak to Amendments 79, 108, 116, 128 and 238. I am glad that the noble Baroness mentioned the importance of assessment and intervention as early as possible, particularly for this area. I was very struck last Wednesday, at a meeting with the Minister, when he confirmed that only just over 10 years ago, 80% of communication between young people was verbal and 20% electronic. That is now reversed, with 80% being electronic and only 20% verbal. We need verbal communication above all to enable us to engage not just with teachers but healthcare workers, family, friends and ultimately with employers and customers. If we are to enable our children to live in today’s world, it is crucial for them to communicate with each other and for those who have to engage with them to help.

Amendment 79 requires schools and registered early years settings to identify special educational needs while offering guidance on how to do so. This is very important because, as we discovered when doing the report, which I have mentioned several times, the health visitors who were doing the early assessment in Northern Ireland were extremely glad that they had been trained to do so by speech and language therapists—not that they could offer therapy, but at least they knew what signs to look for to alert them that somebody had a problem. This is very important, and it is a lesson that should be applied right across the country.

Amendment 108 extends local offers to include access to services for children who are educated in non-maintained early years settings. It should not be restricted only to those with EHC plans, which, for the vast majority of people who have children with speech, language and communication needs, do not make them eligible for any additional support. That is wrong. The people with speech, language and communication needs do need support to enable them to engage. It is not just for those on EHC plans, which, as we know, is a small proportion of the whole.

Amendment 116 requires local authorities to inform parents of what special educational needs and local office support is available to children educated in non-maintained early years settings. This is again something that should not be left to chance because, as we know, there is a vast variety of provision and a vast amount that parents do not know or understand and with which they need help. Somebody has to co-ordinate the giving out of that advice, which suggests that local authorities have a role to play.

Amendment 128 makes local authorities responsible for special educational needs provision to those who have them identified in private, voluntary and independent early years settings, and for establishing the necessary mechanisms to enable and ensure that both identification and provision are available. All those may seem very much the same, but what they are saying collectively is that there is a duty here for the local authorities to make certain that identification and provision are available for all children in the local authority area, whether they are in mainstream or PVI settings. We must not let that go by default.

Amendment 238 highlights something that else that is lacking and is not clear from the Bill. Schedule 4 to the Bill amends the Childcare Act 2006 to require the registration of childminder agencies and certain childcare providers on childcare registers. However, the Bill is currently unclear about the position regarding private, voluntary and independent providers. As nearly 80% of the early years providers come from the private, voluntary or independent sector, this seems to be a gap that needs to be filled. We must ensure that everyone is covered. I am not simply saying that there is a gap; I am trying to suggest that there may be a way out of this. I suggest that all childminder agencies should be required to employ a SENCO, and that all non-maintained providers—that is, all the PVI providers—should be required to register with one of these childminder agencies. In that way, the SENCO can relieve the PVI of what the Government have said that they do not want to do, which is to belabour it with too much bureaucratic work that it has to do. A SENCO with the same status as the others would be able to act as a bridge between these 80% of providers and the local authorities to ensure that every child is covered.

Again, this may sound complicated, but I say to the Minister that the Communication Trust and others, who have thought this through and drafted this amendment, which I am very pleased to put forward for them, are very happy to engage with officials to discuss how this might be provided for, and to make certain that the gap is covered. The Communication Trust includes those working in the area now, and we have contacts with the Local Government Association, which I know would be very happy to contribute.

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

My Lords, my concern in this whole topic is that I make a fair estimate that a lot of childminders are not trained or equipped to identify children with special needs. Surely the agency that ought to pick up special educational needs very early is the district nurse, who visits in the very early stages of a child’s life. One of the things that they are trained to do is to test for special needs. Is this not an opportunity, in this Bill that is trying so hard and so admirably to bring together all the different services, such as health services and educational services, to tie up the measurement, the testing and the observations that a good district nurse will make of a baby—and that I guess a midwife would make—to ensure that this is passed on to the childminders? Here we are very much occupied, rightly, in pointing out the things that need to be done when a child has been identified, but there is very little about how the identification takes place. I would be grateful if the Minister could make some reference to how this could be brought about. It is not asking for anything new; it is asking for exactly what the Bill tries to do, which is to bring the bits together.