Referendums

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. Of course, there was a very considerable interval between the first devolution referendums at the end of the 1970s and the second ones in the late 1990s.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Does the Minister accept that there has been some change since 2016? Although it is true that we have limited information about the success of the campaigning from without the UK on that occasion, and limited information about what happened in the election of President Trump, there is today much more evidence about disinformation campaigning and there are many reports, including by the Oxford Internet Institute, which give us great cause for worry about the future of democracy. Does the Minster agree?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we are very concerned and absolutely determined to protect the integrity of our democracy and our elections. As I have said, we are doing that by addressing in particular the mechanisms for electoral fraud through the introduction of voter ID and by banning postal vote harvesting. We have already announced a range of measures to strengthen and protect our democratic processes. These include commitments to launch a consultation on electoral integrity and to implement a digital imprint regime for online election material.

Outcome of the European Union Referendum

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, were the referendum campaigns a great exercise in democracy, or were they a great exercise in talking past one another? I fear that the disarray which we now witness and the retractions, revelations and recriminations that spill out every day suggest that large parts of these campaigns were not even an exercise in communication, and that the public were not offered adequately described alternatives or the means to judge the real options, opportunities or risks.

This sorry situation is the fault not of the electorate but of the political class and the media. The options were not set out adequately or responsibly by those advocating them. The public did not believe the Government’s economic forecasts, which is not surprising since such forecasts are a specialised art form based on complex assumptions and quite unsuitable for mass communication. One has to say that even those who voted for leave may not have been convinced by many of the claims made by the Brexiteers, some of them since simply retracted. What opponents dubbed respectively Project Fear and Project Fantasy failed to explain either accurately or simply what was at stake or what would happen in the event of each outcome. Neither the process of invoking Article 50, and the role of Parliament in that process, nor the constitutional risks for the future of Northern Ireland and Scotland, and thereby to the integrity of the UK, were adequately communicated to voters.

Independent information was impeded rather than provided. Institutions charged with presenting expert and independent evidence—the Bank of England and the Institute for Fiscal Studies—were accused of being partisan when they did so. Publicly funded institutions such as the Office for National Statistics, the research councils and others whose task is to present evidence-based views were placed in purdah. The BBC often gave equal time to differing opinions but seemingly could not provide sober and informative challenges to the claims that were bandied around, so the elementary conditions for checking and challenging claims and arguments that democracy requires were simply ignored. Nor, it appears, did the Government make preparations for the contingency of a majority for Brexit. A civil service unit for negotiating was not established until after the referendum. Expertise in trade negotiations had been run down and was not being repaired. There was no explanation about the process for invoking Article 50, and the findings of the admirable report of your Lordships’ European Union Committee on the process were very little known.

How did this damaging decline in democratic standards come about? The causes are quite complex and I shall mention only two. One is an everyday matter but the other is fundamental. The everyday matter is that social media make it possible for people to think that they are in touch with a wide range of views and information, even when they are not. Unless the media ensure that the range of views, evidence and arguments is available and taken seriously, public engagement cannot flourish. If the media ignore, caricature or rubbish some positions, democratic decision-making is hardly likely to work well.

Last year at a meeting of an all-party group on hate speech, I realised how insidious this can be. Facebook gave evidence to the group that it removes postings that incite hatred after a certain number of complaints—the informants thought it was about 20—but it also reported that these postings are promptly reposted and recirculated, creating a continuous torrent of abuse and incitement. We are all aware that social media create echo chambers that contribute to the radicalisation of extremists, but perhaps we are not sufficiently aware of how they can undermine democratic debate. Crowdsourcing is, no doubt, a fine way to find out about consumer products because each contribution is independent and the results are cumulative, but it is a rotten way to source judgments when inputs are repetitive and the opinions that surface and prevail are echoes.

Additionally, there seems to be widespread confusion between rights of self-expression and press freedom. Both are covered by the term “freedom of expression”, but they differ. Rights to self-expression are for individuals. We often follow John Stuart Mill in thinking that rights to self-expression protect individuals and should be restricted only when their self-expression is likely to harm others. His classic example was shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theatre where there is no fire. However, Mill did not think that institutions or the powerful, including the press, have rights to self-expression. After all, they have no selves to express. He supported a free press for different reasons: because it can support freedom of discussion and debate, and enable citizens to encounter a wide range of relevant views and opinions—and to check and challenge what they read and hear.

What is past is past. Looking ahead, I have two questions for the Minister. First, will the Government make it a red line not to agree to any settlement with the European Union that damages the very people who were led to believe—or misled to believe—that Brexit would address their concerns, their interests and what they felt to be their exclusion? Secondly, will the Minister consider whether to make it a red line not to agree to any settlement with the European Union that abandons the common travel area we have with the Republic of Ireland, and have maintained since the 1920s, and that risks destroying the peace process in Northern Ireland and the UK?

Universities: Freedom of Speech

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

In order for me to assist the House, the Member seeking to ask a question has to try to get in. However, I think that the House wants to hear from the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

Does the Minister have any views about the most effective means by which university vice-chancellors and councils can alter the climate in which some people confuse the passion of their own disagreement with a licence to silence?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

There is a good, strong relationship between vice-chancellors and students in many universities. Indeed, as Louise Richardson, vice-chancellor of Oxford University, has said, students must learn to engage with ideas that they find objectionable and be more willing to debate with opponents to try to change their minds. Statements like that from vice-chancellors, encouraging students and making clear the need to debate and argue about ideas, are very positive.

Implications of Devolution for England

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Well, I do not recognise the description of our current situation that the noble Lord is giving. We know that lots of changes have happened. The particular issue that we feel is necessary for us to address has been around for a long time. A lot of thinking has been put into this over many years. We now have some simple options before us, but, as I keep saying, that does not rule out a constitutional convention on bigger issues, if that is what people feel is necessary.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Does the Minister have any worries that this way of proceeding will add to the raggedness of our constitutional settlement and lead to asymmetric forms of devolution, and confuses devolution and delegation? This is an area where many of us fear to tread without great care. Surely, from the start, a constitutional convention, discussion, collaboration and cross-party agreement are all needed.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness and I know how distinguished she is in terms of her very thoughtful approach to matters of great importance. But I can only say to her what I have said to other noble Lords. We are not ruling out the possibility of the kind of approach that she is promoting, but we do not believe that doing that should delay us from addressing a fundamental issue of fairness that now exists which we feel that it is very important to address.

Iraq

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Friday 26th September 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister and many other noble Lords have made a very compelling case for the just cause that would be represented by this intervention. The jus ad bellum criterion for this being an acceptable war has been fully satisfied in this debate and elsewhere. There is a strong case that it is both moral and lawful to intervene, but that is not a sufficient account of what it takes for a war to be just. The way in which one intervenes has also to be just; one has to satisfy the jus in bello clause. Is this going to be just conduct in war? Well, I think that it will be proportionate; I think that we are well used to judging that.

The question then remains of whether it will be effective. As the debate has gone on, many noble Lords have concentrated on the likely effectiveness of this intervention. “Effective for what?” would be my question. “Effective where?” would be a second question, and “Effective with whom?” a third. We are told that it will be effective for the degradation of ISIL, which is taken to mean the degradation of its weapons, supplies and infrastructure at present in Iraq, and not beyond. However, ultimately, as many noble Lords have said, this is about hearts and minds. Bombing looks very different, depending on the position that one is in. My late brother, who served in the Parachute Regiment, once said to me that he thought there was a great difference between European and North American views of bombing, because when North Americans talked about bombing they were mainly thinking about being up there doing it, but when Europeans thought about bombing they were mainly thinking about being down here as it happened. That is a disjunction of perspectives that we need to take very seriously.

Bombing looks different depending on where you sit, and that has been acknowledged by many, but it is vanishingly unlikely that there will be no—as it is politely put—collateral damage. What effect does collateral damage have? Well, it is then open to interpretation by those who suffer, or who sympathise with the sufferers, as to whose fault it is. A couple of years ago I went to Kaliningrad, formerly Königsberg, on the Baltic, part of Russia but of course separated from the rest of it. In 1944, when the Red Army was advancing and the RAF gave air support, Königsberg was devastatingly damaged. When I was there in 2012, many people said, “Ah yes, the RAF destroyed the city and the Red Army liberated us”. History had forgotten that the RAF acted in support of the Red Army. They were on the same side, and it was the Nazi occupiers who were being attacked. We have to think very carefully about this perspective. Who will get the blame when hard things happen—as they will?

There is one note of hope. This country, and this coalition Government, have taken a very determined stand—I declare an interest as chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission—on doing something about violence against women and girls. Let us note that ISIL has a real specialism in doing dire things to women and girls. Let us hope that the Government will think about mobilising the many different groups in civil society in our country which are committed to ending that so that they will add and extend that commitment to think about the women and girls in Iraq, Nigeria and elsewhere who are so often and disproportionately the victims of this war.

Press Regulation

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd April 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said before, I think we are all seeking an outcome to command public confidence that there is a means of proper redress and that we also ensure the freedom of the press. The principles of Lord Justice Leveson’s report are based on independent and effective press self-regulation. I therefore welcome the progress in setting up a self-regulator, as I do the formation of the Recognition Panel.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Does the Minister consider that the Leveson recommendations will be adequately implemented if the only self-regulatory body declines to seek audit by the royal charter body?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I simply do not know at this stage whether—

Liaison Committee: Third Report

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Chairman of Committees]

I would say only that membership can be up to 14. There is no need for the European Union Committee to appoint 14 on each of its sub-committees; it can continue at 12, as it wants to at the moment.

Noble Lords have made a number of other points but I do not think I can add much more. On the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, about the Science and Technology Committee, there is nothing to stop that committee conducting follow-up inquiries in future. Paragraph 47 of the report makes clear that the committee should retain the power to appoint a sub-committee and to co-opt additional Members for particular inquiries. Both those points are already made in the report.

I hope that the House will agree to the report. It will breathe fresh air into the committee structure and I commend it to the House.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

Will the noble Lord confirm that the Government remain committed to policies and structures in the House; and that the Liaison Committee, above all, remains so committed and will support evidence-based policy rather than a slide towards the new, the “breath of fresh air” and the policy-based evidence?

[The Chairman of Committees]

I am sorry to disappoint the noble Baroness but I do not speak for the Government.

Legislative Timetable

Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve Excerpts

Thursday 6th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, on the first point, I am delighted to tell my noble friend that in the first Session of the last Labour Administration, in 2005-06, 4,005 pages of legislation were enacted. So far this Session, which is longer than the 2005-06 one, we have passed only 1,392 pages of legislation. As for automatic timetabling in another place, that is up to the procedures there. However, I understand that most of that timetabling is agreed with the Opposition, very often without a vote.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

Does the noble Lord the Leader of the House consider that it might help both Houses if legislation were drafted at an earlier stage? At present, I understand that departments of state receive a budget for parliamentary counsel to start drafting only when they have a guarantee that such legislation will be in the forthcoming Queen’s Speech. That is too late, and I believe that we might have better drafted legislation that we could deal with more expeditiously if that were changed. It does not require legislation to change it.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I broadly agree with the noble Baroness. She will welcome the fact that the Government are committed to promoting other forms of scrutiny and have already published a number of Bills for pre-legislative scrutiny in this Session alone. We are currently scrutinising in pre-legislative scrutiny some six Bills, including clauses relating to individual electoral registration and electoral administration.