Gaza: Reconstruction

Debate between Baroness Northover and Viscount Slim

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

We certainly condemn the actions of Hamas in terms of the rocket fire but we have also urged that Israel, which has a right to defend itself, should do so in a way that is indeed proportionate.

[Viscount Slim (CB)]

My Lords, it is a known fact that the Palestinians inside Gaza are not in control of their own destiny. Hamas dictates in Gaza. Unless Her Majesty’s Government, and DfID in particular, are very careful, they will discover that most of this reconstruction money goes towards the rebuilding of Hamas’s destroyed houses and, as one noble Lord said, the tunnels and hides for its armaments and munitions. There is a great danger that if this money and equipment get into the wrong hands, our country will be liable for supporting one of the nastiest and most vicious terrorist organisations in the world at present—one that is primed and supported by Iran. This will mean that we are supporting a terrorist organisation.

[Baroness Northover]

I assure the noble Viscount that no UK aid money goes to Hamas, but of course Hamas needs to be part of the ceasefire negotiations and it is extremely important that the peace process moves on. The region is a tinderbox, and the sooner that it moves on, the better for all concerned.

Afghanistan: Quarterly Statement

Debate between Baroness Northover and Viscount Slim

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

Interestingly, I was trying to work that out myself when I was noting down the figures. I am not sure that I can answer the noble Lord precisely. I noted that the population of Afghanistan seems to be 30 million, and that probably 7 million turned out to vote. The noble Lord can probably do his own maths, bearing in mind the size of the young age group in the country. It is significant that 4.5 million people turned out in 2009, so that number has now gone up to 7 million. I will be very happy to get somebody who is better at maths to work that out, but I hope that it gives an indication of the upward trajectory.

[Viscount Slim (CB)]

My Lords, we seem to be talking as if it is all over. It is not over until the end of the year and the withdrawal. In a withdrawal, there is often a temptation to think defensively, which can get you into a great deal of trouble. I ask the noble Baroness to ensure that the forces that we retain until the very end within Afghanistan have an offensive capability both on the land and in the air, and that the evacuation does not take place in such a way that those who remain until the end are in a somewhat desperate position. There is still an enemy to fight and to look out for. I hope that the Ministry of Defence has not picked up this defensive attitude, which takes away the complete attacking and offensive spirit of an army and an air force in a withdrawal position. I speak as someone who has withdrawn several times.

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Viscount talks about it being not over until the end of the year. As the DfID spokesman, I should say that it is not over then either, as we have been emphasising. He can be reassured that the Ministry of Defence is well aware of the need to ensure that those who are still there are well equipped. I see from the figures on redeployment of equipment quite a substantial amount still there. Around 63% of major equipment has been moved back and redeployed, but there is a quite substantial commitment still there. I hope that he will be reassured by that.