Children and Families Bill

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Low of Dalston

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, this debate builds on previous discussions which we have had as the Bill has progressed. We had a particularly important debate before Christmas on the need for high-quality data to inform decisions about the necessary support for families. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, for his engagement in this area and his promotion of it.

Local authorities have a duty under Section 17 of the Children Act 1989 to maintain a register of disabled children in their area. This will remain unchanged by the Care Bill, which applies only to adults. I recognise, however, that the noble Lord, Lord Low, remains concerned that the registers of disabled children are underused and that they lack the detail needed to support effective planning of services, in particular for blind or visually-impaired children. It may well be that some local authorities do not adequately maintain their registers at the moment. We agree that guidance is important in addressing this issue, which we believe is one of practice rather than legislation, as the noble Lord indicated. We do not think that a new power to issue guidance is necessary.

In our debate before Christmas, noble Lords welcomed amendments to the Bill requiring disabled children to be included within the scope of a number of significant clauses in Part 3. These include: local authorities identifying children and young people in their area who have or may have SEN, in Clause 22; joint commissioning arrangements, in Clause 26; reviewing the special education and care provision that is available locally, in Clause 27; and the local offer, in Clause 30. I am pleased that noble Lords welcomed these amendments, which are a significant change to the Bill. They also provide a greater incentive to use the SEN code of practice, which provides statutory guidance on these and other duties under the Bill, to include guidance on issues relating to disabled children and young people.

Within the code, we will now require that local authorities have a clear picture of the numbers of disabled children within their area, including in particular data on low-incidence needs such as visual impairment or hearing impairment. We will also make clear—as we have in the existing code—that local authorities remain under a duty to maintain a register of disabled children and that these registers are particularly important in fulfilling the duties that I have just set out.

Placing this guidance within the core SEN code of practice will mean that the duties of the local authority are clearly and explicitly set out in the main statutory document that local authorities and their partners consult practically daily and which they must have regard to. This also avoids the potential for confusing or contradictory requirements across different sets of guidance. The guidance in the code will ensure that there is no doubt over the need to maintain registers of visually-impaired children and link this need clearly to the local authority duties under the Bill. I hope that the noble Lord is reassured and I urge him to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her reply. I am reassured by what she says—that the Government have certainly got hold of the issue and its importance. The important thing now is to make sure that local authorities get hold of it. I am not 100% reassured by the undertaking to ensure that it is included in a code of practice that gets thicker by the minute as we put new things in it. This provision seems the kind of exhortation that could easily get buried among a lot of other, more high-profile stuff.

Could the Government meet me one step further? The Minister kindly offered to include the issue in the code of practice. Not only that, but when the code of practice is circulated, as it will be, could they specifically draw the issue to local authorities’ attention as an important requirement that they have to give considerable attention to? That would be particularly helpful. When the code of practice is circulated, there will be ancillary communications surrounding it, laying emphasis on the importance of this and that aspect. If the Minister would agree to put something in those supporting communications to draw attention to the importance of maintaining the registers, for the point of view of the data that they provide and the opportunity for identification of need and planning that they—

[Baroness Northover]

Maybe I could reassure the noble Lord that we will highlight the importance of the duties when we write to local authorities about the implementation of the Bill.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

Now I am about 99.9% reassured. That is very helpful and I am grateful to the Minister for it. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Children and Families Bill

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Low of Dalston

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Low of Dalston]

It is me again so soon. Amendment 65C is the only amendment in this group, which means that I should be able to speak to it somewhat more briefly. The amendment is about the rights of disabled young adults. In using the term “disabled people”, I include those with SEN. Referring to disabled people will help to anchor the notion that the Bill, as we discussed as regards the previous group, should be about disabled people without SEN as well as those with SEN.

The Bill does not clearly distinguish between the rights of children and those of young adults. As the age range covered by the Bill goes from birth to 25, the rights of young adults need to be clearly differentiated. Parental responsibility for decision-making is in place until the age of 18. While that is subject to some flexibility in certain areas, such as consent to medical treatment and Gillick competency, the position is different from that relating to those aged more than 18 who have their own rights and responsibilities, and where parents do not have a specific legal role unless the young person lacks competency.

I am concerned that the Bill does not make this distinction clearly enough. Therefore, it has the potential to blur the right of young, disabled adults aged more than 18 to be involved in decisions about their own education. Amendment 65C makes clear that disabled young people must be consulted and involved in their own right, and supported to participate as fully as possible in the process. Other young people would not expect decisions about their future to be made for them, so nor should this be the case for disabled young people. I beg to move.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Low, for tabling this amendment. The SEN provisions bestow important new rights on young people—that is, those over compulsory school age—for the first time and the noble Lord is right to draw our attention to the distinction that we are making here.

I assure the noble Lord that the Bill already makes the distinction between children in relation to whom decisions are made by their parents and young people who make those decisions themselves. A local authority would be in breach of its duties if it failed to make such a distinction. Clause 27 requires local authorities to consult young people when it reviews its special educational provision and social care provision. Regulation 4 of the local offer regulations is very clear that local authorities must consult with young people directly over the local offer. That may be an implementation challenge for many local authorities but it does not require a change to legislation. For young people with education, health and care plans, which may be particularly relevant to what the noble Lord has just raised, it is they, not their parents, who must be consulted about their assessment and plans.

It would be impossible for a local authority to fulfil its statutory duties under these clauses without having due regard to the distinction between children and young people. The draft code is also very clear on this point: paragraph 3.2 says:

“Where there is a conflict of interests between the young person and the parent, it is the view of the young person that prevails”.

Parents are not ruled out, of course; they can still support and help a young person in whatever way the young person wants them to. Chapter 3.2 of the draft code acknowledges that,

“some young people will need support from a skilled advocate to ensure that their views are heard and acknowledged”,

and Chapter 3.3 says it is clear that,

“staff working directly with young people should be trained to support them and work in partnership with them, enabling them to participate fully in decisions about the outcomes they wish to achieve”.

I hope that this reassures the noble Lord, and I urge him to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, there seems to be a good deal in the Minister’s response that should potentially provide quite a bit of reassurance. I want to read it, but I certainly do not intend to argue the toss about it or prolong the debate at this stage. I am happy to beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Care Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Low of Dalston

Monday 29th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Low of Dalston]

Can I just make sure—does that mean that the third party to whom the care function may be delegated is also liable under such legislation as the Human Rights Act?

[Baroness Northover]

What I have written here is that when the local authority delegates a public function to a third party, the function must be carried out in a way that is consistent with the Human Rights Act. It appears—I will clarify for the noble Lord if it is not the case—that the local authority has to abide by the Human Rights Act, but clearly, if it delegates something to a third party, which does not adhere to it, the third party is not adhering to its obligations to the local authority. By that device, the Human Rights Act would end up having an effect on what those third parties could do, even if they were not themselves directly responsible. However, I will clarify that if I am wrong.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

I am very grateful for that further clarification. It is reassuring to hear that the third party is under an obligation to carry out its functions in a manner that is compliant with the Human Rights Act. However, it would offer further reassurance if we were told that there was a remedy against the third party to which the function was delegated as well as against the local authority. I appreciate what the noble Baroness has said about a remedy against the local authority. However, as appeared when we talked about the application of human rights legislation a week ago, for remedies to have a practical effect so far as third parties carrying out delegated responsibilities are concerned, it is desirable—this was the view of the Joint Committee—that there should be a remedy against the third party to which responsibilities were delegated as well as against the local authority. In this instance that is, if I may put it this way, little more than a backstop. The remedy bites much more effectively if it can be seen to bite on the third party, to whom the responsibilities are delegated, and not just on the local authority. I hope that that further clarification of my point will make it easier for the noble Baroness to come back to me when she has looked into the matter further.

[Baroness Northover]

I will certainly write to the noble Lord and spell it out. Given the local authority’s responsibility for complying with the Human Rights Act, it is very unlikely that it would form a contract with a third party without ensuring that it knows that it will need to carry out whatever responsibility has been passed to that third party in the light of the Human Rights Act, otherwise the local authority will end up in court. I will write to the noble Lord in detail to explain how this operates.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, asked why the Government have chosen regulations to address the issues relating to provider failures. There is no simple definition of business failure and—we have some very interesting handwriting here; it is worse than a doctor’s. My best bet is to write to the noble Baroness.

To return to summing up on this group of amendments, I hope that I have reassured noble Lords about their amendments in this group, that they will feel able to withdraw their amendments, and that I have persuaded noble Lords that the government amendments I have outlined here should be accepted.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, for his amendment. It raises some important issues. He emphasises that local authorities need to follow up those who have been newly certified as sight-impaired or severely sight-impaired in a timely manner where they have indicated that they wish to be registered or to have an assessment of their needs for care and support. Indeed, we have great sympathy with his concerns. We accept that people who have acquired a visual impairment should have an early opportunity to have access to information and advice so that they can adapt to their situation as quickly as possible and obtain any aids and support that will help them to manage their lives better.

As we have discussed, Clause 4 requires local authorities to make available universal information and advice on care and support, which will of course be relevant here. But people who lose their sight suddenly can also need more time to come to terms with their loss and engage with the support that might be available to them. If that is the case, it might be more appropriate to have a greater degree of flexibility around the timescales for when that support is offered or re-offered. Individuals differ in the way that they respond. We therefore believe that it would be better if the detail of this was covered in guidance, as it is for deaf-blind people, rather than in the Bill or in the regulations. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, there may well be a parallel here for deaf people, I am happy to write to him in answer to his questions.

Covering this in guidance would allow greater flexibility to update and adapt the arrangements. I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Low, that officials intend to work closely with the RNIB and other stakeholders to ensure that the guidance is as comprehensive as possible. He is absolutely right that the person needs to be at the heart of that guidance. In the light of what I have said to both noble Lords, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Low, will be happy to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for her response, and also to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, for his support. On what the noble Baroness had to say, I am very glad to hear that the Government propose to work with RNIB on refreshing the guidance. That will be very welcome. On that basis, I shall certainly want to withdraw the amendment. However, I would like to make a couple of points. The noble Baroness drew a parallel between the guidance on visual impairment and that for deaf-blind people. The Law Commission was in favour of upgrading the guidance for deaf-blind people to regulation status. Perhaps when the Government look at that question in respect of deaf-blindness and vision impairment, they may like to revisit it and consider whether guidance or regulations are the best vehicle.

I agree about flexibility, but the fact that somebody may need longer to adapt to sight loss or may need help for longer simply argues, to me, that they need help longer, not that they do not need prompt intervention. Even if you are going to need longer, or take longer to adapt to sight loss, you probably still require prompt intervention and early contact from the local authority to determine as quickly as possible what your needs are to put in place as quickly as possible what is appropriate to be put in place quickly, and to put in place what is needed over a longer time period as and when required.

With those observations, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Overseas Aid: Post-2015 Development Agenda

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Low of Dalston

Thursday 25th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

This report is remarkable. Many people felt that it would be very difficult to secure something as focused, streamlined and effective as this one is, following on as it does from the previous one, which was negotiated almost in isolation. Many different groups and organisations from countries across the globe have been involved, which is a good omen for taking this forward. However, the noble Lord is absolutely right to say that it is going to need a lot of work, and this Government will be putting that work in to ensure that what is finally proposed is as strong as this initial report.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, the Prime Minister is much to be congratulated on the report of the high-level panel, which he co-chaired, given its emphasis on no one being left behind and the recommendation that targets should be considered achieved only if they are met for all the relevant income and stakeholder groups. Given all of that and the fact that progress towards the current millennium development goals has been limited by the great increase in global inequalities, will the UK Government press for a stand-alone goal on equality in the post-2015 framework?

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Lord is right about how this proposal emphasises leaving no one behind and that targets can be considered achieved only when they are met across all social and income groups. That is essential in tackling inequality. It seems to us that challenging inequality runs as a thread through the whole report.