Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Wednesday 30th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

As the noble Baroness may remember, the protections given to various religions in the equal marriage Act protect them in this regard from the operation of the Equality Act. It is up to the Church of England, but I note what the right reverend Prelate said.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, to clarify the position for Church of England clergy during the next two years, will my noble friend confirm that clergy in civil partnerships are able to carry out their ministry in the normal way?

[Baroness Northover]

I think I need to write to the noble Lord to clarify exactly what the situation is at the moment within the Church of England—but again, it is a matter for the Church of England.

Sudan

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

We are not negotiating any debt relief with the Government of Sudan. As the noble Lord probably knows, that has to be achieved through the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries process.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend tell us why it is unlikely that a second resolution could be achieved, what we are doing to change that situation and what other means there are to bring this terrible man to justice?

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, if we could deliver what is already there, that would be a signal achievement, and we are doing our best to achieve that. The noble Lord will be aware that the aim to ensure that the dire situation of those in Sudan is addressed means that often one has to negotiate at every level of government to try to ensure that Sudan does not hold its people to ransom as we try to get humanitarian aid in.

Syria: Aid

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. That is a major concern of ours, but it hinges so much on access. She will be well aware, for example, of the cases of polio in an area where it had been eliminated. As we try to seek the elimination of polio worldwide, to see it going backwards in this region is extremely concerning. It is a problem of access. We are working to try to ensure that all medical supplies, including for the vaccination of children, get through.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, I presume that the most difficult people to reach are those who are being targeted by the various forces active in Syria. Can my noble friend tell us in particular whether aid is able to reach and support the Christian communities in Syria, which are under very great pressure?

[Baroness Northover]

They are indeed under great pressure and a number of them are in hard-to-reach areas. Those who are blocking humanitarian access come from all sides in this conflict and we urge all parties to the conflict to remove those barriers to humanitarian operations.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton]

I thought commendation amounted to movement. However, I beg leave to move the amendment.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, Amendment 24C sets out a procedure for the conversion from civil partnership to marriage to take place under Clause 9 of the Bill. My noble friend proposes an oath or affirmation to be made before three witnesses. We already have adequate powers in Clause 9 that would enable the making of provision for a ceremonial element to the conversion, which could consist of spoken statements and/or a requirement for the presence of witnesses. It would be premature to be more specific.

We are still developing detailed proposals for how the conversion process would work and these are not straightforward issues. For example, the more elaborate the arrangement, the more costly this is likely to be for the couple, many of whom may wish to have a very simple, essentially administrative process, given that they may have incurred significant costs when registering their civil partnership. Let us not forget that if marriage had been an option when many couples contracted their civil partnership they might have opted for marriage originally and will consider that they do not need to jump additional hurdles or show more commitment; they have already done that. It is important that we do everything we can not to force such couples down a costly route if they do not wish to take it.

I acknowledge that some would like a requirement for some form of declaratory or contracting words to be spoken in a procedure as an integral part of the conversion, while others would want a minimalist approach. We will be consulting interested stakeholders as we shape the detailed policy for conversions so that the regulations are as inclusive as possible of affected couples’ wishes. We should not lose sight of the fact that a conversion is not, and never has been, intended to signify the beginning of a relationship; rather it is a change of status of an existing legal relationship. Conversion will be an administrative process, although we believe there should be a possibility of an optional ceremonial aspect for those who want it. We will bring forward our proposals in good time so that we can get the process right.

I appreciate my noble friend’s recognition of the significance of marriage to couples who wish to convert their civil partnership. Nevertheless, as the methods of such conversion are very carefully considered, I hope my noble friend will bear with us and withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, I was very interested in the terms in which my noble friend asked me to do that. I wonder if she is familiar with the fourth report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee on the Bill. Paragraph 6 says:

“We do not consider it appropriate to describe the powers conferred by clause 9 as being administrative in nature”—

which is what she has just done.

“The regulations will set out the entire process under which a civil partnership is converted into a marriage, including whether or not it requires the presence of the parties and (if so) the nature of the ceremony they are to take part in. This is a wholly novel process with no indication given in the Department’s memorandum as to the form that it will take or as to fees which may be required to be paid”.

It seems that not enough thought has been given to this in advance. In bold type the report then says:

“Accordingly we recommend that regulations under clause 9 should be made by the Secretary of State, with the affirmative procedure applying to the first exercise of the powers, and with the regulations thereafter being subject to the negative procedure”.

I hope that my noble friend will warm to that idea as the bare minimum that would induce me at a later stage to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend has neatly rolled up his previous amendment as well. I am aware of the Delegated Powers Committee report. We have just received it and will be studying it carefully, considering all its recommendations. I note what my noble friend says and I ask him to await our response to the committee’s recommendations.

[Lord Elton]

That said, and anxiously awaiting developments, which I hope will be ahead of Report stage so that I can digest them and maybe even have the honour of discussing them with the Minister before Report stage, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Badgers

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Lord will know the scale of the problem that we seek to tackle and the difficulty of using the various measures that we have. That is why we are using a range of measures. The open season dates take account of the breeding season, so the assessment could happen any time from the beginning of this month on. Operators will be required to follow best practice guidelines, and it will be very carefully monitored. A number of organisations are involved in this.

[Lord Elton]

Will my noble friend remind us how many cattle have had to be slaughtered because of bovine tuberculosis in recent years? Is the number growing and what has been the cost of compensation?

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend is absolutely right to highlight this. Last year 28,000 cattle had to be put down. Through this cull, we are looking at reducing the number of badgers by 5,000, so noble Lords can see the scale of this. The cost to the taxpayer over the last decade was £500 million for the cattle destroyed, and that could reach £1 billion in the next decade.

Family Planning: London Summit

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Thursday 12th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

These issues were discussed. In fact, I heard the Malawian delegation saying that they would be committing to raising the legal age of marriage to 18—that is above ours. People were acutely aware of the challenges here and the number of girls as young as 12, 13 and 14 who are having their first children and trying to delay that.

[Lord Elton]

The noble Lord, Lord Patel, raised the question of drawing the importance of family planning to the attention of young girls. Surely the question arises equally in relation to young men. Much more pressingly for our society as a whole, how about telling them about the importance of families themselves?

[Baroness Northover]

The role of boys and men was also discussed. I was on a panel yesterday with a very impressive young man from Togo who was involved in this. When his brother died of AIDS, his family, who in the earlier stages had opposed what he had done, then took him to task for not having said enough.

Sudan and South Sudan

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Thursday 17th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very good point on what is, I think, his birthday—many happy returns to him. The UK has contributed £10 million to the World Food Programme for general food distribution and £15 million to the Common Humanitarian Fund. We are acutely aware that it is children who will be particularly vulnerable in this situation. Therefore, the provision that the international community is trying to make is very much focused on their needs.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, are there plans in place to maintain the integrity of the delivery of humanitarian aid to the people who are intended to receive it at a time in the future when the application of sanctions may make Governments very anxious to acquire it for themselves?

[Baroness Northover]

All these issues are extremely complex and the noble Lord rightly points to the potential impact of sanctions. As for humanitarian relief, a huge logistical effort is going on at the moment to get food and other supplies in place, particularly with the onset of the rains coming down the track and the potential of mass migration that may result, as noble Lords may be aware. We are monitoring this very closely and my colleague, Stephen O’Brien, is watching all the time what is happening.

Education Bill

Debate between Baroness Northover and Lord Elton

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords that we are now on Report. We should not be exploring in enormous detail issues that were looked at in Committee. We should have just the distillation of where we have got to on this matter. I also remind noble Lords that we have some very important business to consider following this debate. I therefore hope that we can expedite things and reach a conclusion.

Lord Elton: Perhaps I may distil what my noble friend has just said with the Latin phrase—“expressio unius est exclusio alterius”: if you have a list, the things that are in it matter and, by inference, the things that are not in it do not matter. Lists are very dangerous things.

Perhaps I may distil a parent’s view on the particular aspect of the amendment on which your Lordships have chosen to concentrate. I think that the parent has the best idea of when a child is ready for the various stages of his or her understanding of sex, and the best way is to answer truthfully every question when it is asked and at the age at which it is asked—sometimes wrapped up a little. I do think—and your Lordships have generally expressed a view—that to teach advanced sex, if one may call it that, in primary school is entirely inappropriate. I add my name to the list of those who admire greatly what the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, has done in Parliament for young people over many years, and I have been rather feeble in supporting her. However, what she was not asked to do was a demonstration of the material that is not only available but recommended to be used in classrooms; and recommended not only by non-government bodies but by local authorities, sometimes at an age less even than that recommended by the publisher. It was hair-raising. I hope your Lordships will understand that for that reason anything that tends to open the door to that is to be resisted.

The noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead, put it succinctly—he distilled it. He said that the inference in paragraph (c) of proposed new subsection (5C) is that this subject should be taught in all schools. It is for that reason and with great reluctance that I oppose the amendment. Its intention is good and if it could be tweaked at Third Reading to exclude that inference, I would be friendly to it.