Energy Bill [HL]

Baroness Noakes Excerpts

Monday 31st January 2011 Grand Committee

Making sure that people have good information about the energy efficiency of their homes is a practical step in helping to achieve improvements in respect of such significant issues as climate change, energy prices and public health. I beg to move.

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, I have Amendments 33B and 33C in this group, and my noble friend Lord Jenkin has Amendment 33A. Having heard what the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, said in introducing his amendments, I think that it would be for the convenience of the Committee if I dealt with the rather different issues raised by our amendments by degrouping them. I shall therefore not speak to them now.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I should like to start by countering comments made by the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill, during a previous discussion. Far from feeling that I have drawn the short straw as the Whip, the opposite is the case. Not only is my noble friend Lord Marland taking the particularly complicated areas but—far more importantly—this is such an easy Bill. It is a Bill on which we are agreed across the Committee, so it is a great delight. Our purpose here is to refine how best to achieve the Bill’s objectives. That may not have been the noble Lord’s experience in the past, but if he watches me through these proceedings, he will notice how happy I am.

Amendment 33ZA provides that sufficient information must be disclosed to enable those involved in the Green Deal to decide what measures are appropriate for a property. However, Clause 70 is not intended to make data available for this purpose. If someone was considering how to improve a building’s energy efficiency, they would commission an EPC, which would include recommended measures to improve the energy efficiency of the building and form the basis of advice by a qualified Green Deal adviser on the most appropriate measures for the property.

The Green Deal adviser would calculate exactly how much money would need to be borrowed and the number and amount of repayments et cetera. This is all part of the discussion that a householder will need to have with the Green Deal adviser as part of the potential transaction. We do not consider it necessary or appropriate to stipulate this level of detail in legislation.

Amendment 33CA provides that, where a property is to be sold or rented out, the seller, prospective landlord or their agent must provide an EPC free of charge to a prospective buyer or tenant, the EPC should be no more than a year old and the person providing it must not believe that it is inaccurate. It has been a statutory requirement under existing regulations since October 2008 that an EPC is made available free of charge to a prospective buyer or tenant when a property is put on the market by the seller or prospective landlord. In the case of domestic sales, there is a duty on the agent to be satisfied that an EPC has been commissioned before marketing a property. A similar duty will be extended to agents in respect of domestic rentals and non-domestic transactions later this year.

As for the accuracy of EPCs, which is what the noble Lord is flagging up, I assure noble Lords that, under existing regulations, a duty of care is placed on the energy assessor to carry out energy assessments with reasonable skill and care. The only change that this amendment would introduce would be to provide that EPCs must be less than a year old. At present, an EPC can be up to 10 years old. In deciding on an appropriate validity period, we need to strike a balance between ensuring that an EPC contains up-to-date information and not requiring sellers or prospective landlords to incur unnecessary costs. In future, where improvement works are funded through the Green Deal, there will be an obligation to produce an updated EPC to capture the impact of the work on the energy efficiency of the property. While there will not be such an obligation where Green Deal finance was not used, it would be sensible for them to obtain an updated EPC that reflected the impact of any other work, because it will benefit them when seeking to sell or rent out the property. However, it is unnecessary to introduce a statutory obligation in such circumstances. I hope that noble Lords have found my explanation reassuring and will withdraw their amendment.

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Moved by

[Baroness Noakes]

33B: Clause 70, page 51, line 39, after “section” insert “other than subsection (2)(e)”

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, we are still dealing with Clause 70, which deals with energy performance certificates. My Amendments 33B and 33C do not concern the substance of the regulations that will be produced but the parliamentary procedure to be applied to them. At present, by virtue of Clause 70(6), only the negative procedure applies to any regulations made under Clause 70. That includes regulations made under subsection (2)(e), which allows sanctions for non-compliance. Here we return to the eighth report of the 2010-11 Session by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which pointed out that where sanctions could include financial penalties, the Bill should provide—as a minimum—for the affirmative procedure. That is what my amendments would provide. The committee went on to say that the Bill should also provide for a maximum, which my amendment does not provide. I hope the Minister will be able to satisfy me on how the Government intend to respond to the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I beg to move.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, it will not surprise the Minister to hear that I agree entirely with the case made by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. The sanctions are a different and important dimension, which is why the Merits Committee referred to the issue. The Minister will know only too well that regard for the Merits Committee is such that, when it recommends the affirmative procedure rather than the existing negative procedure, Ministers normally agree, as I hope the noble Baroness will.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the Bill does not intend to create any new criminal offences or impose financial penalties. However, we hear what the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, says and we are indeed happy to look at this again on Report.

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, it is a handsome offer definitely to come back on Report. How could I possibly refuse? I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 33B withdrawn.

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[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I put this forward as a probing amendment to clarify the issue of liability in the event of an oil spill. There are two triggers for the amendment. The first is the group of clauses that we are coming on to discuss and the second is the debate that we had thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, towards the end of last year on the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. It was while researching for that debate that I thought more about the issues of liability if we had a spill in this country. I understand that with the Deepwater Horizon spill the costs are huge—around $20 billion and still counting. I am not clear on the issues of liability in this country, which is an area of concern. This seems an opportune moment to raise it during our proceedings on the Bill.

There is a two-pronged approach to this. First, there are technical ways in which to do everything that we can to avoid such a spill. Secondly, we could have an insurance policy in case a spill was to occur. That is the reason for proposing this amendment. At the moment, should there be a significant oil spill, the costs would fall on the taxpayer. Would that be at a national or a local authority level? This amendment seeks increased liability cover to be required before drilling in the UK. The recent report from the Energy and Climate Change Committee in the other place dealt with this issue and highlighted liability as an area that needed significant improvement to protect the taxpayer. The financial requirements currently placed on the industry are under the offshore pollution liability agreement, but my understanding is that they are quite weak. A significant oil spill would leave taxpayers disadvantaged, because they would face potentially huge costs in order to clear a major spill from the ocean off our shores.

In proposing this amendment, we want the Government to ensure that any new offshore drilling licence is granted only when the licensee has proved its ability to meet the full costs to address the direct and indirect consequences of an accidental release of oil that occurred as a result of any operations on the UK continental shelf. The Government should also ensure that compulsory third-party insurance cover is obtained for all small exploration and production involved in drilling operations in the UKCS. When we discussed this issue before, the Minister was content that the current arrangements for monitoring in the UK were perfectly adequate. Indeed, we have some of the toughest regulations and inspections in the world, but the HSE has warned about the increase in the number of serious accidents and spills. It has said that the industry’s performance is not good enough and has urged it to up its game.

The monitoring and regulations that we have in place are significantly better than those that existed in the US at the time of Deepwater Horizon. However, I was concerned that the department’s evidence to the committee confirmed that just one inspection of a deepwater rig will take place in 2010-11. I appreciate that the Government will be vigilant, but we need some clarification on the costs and who would be responsible.

There are technical improvements that the Government could undertake. I am sure that the Minister is aware of the issues surrounding blow-out preventers and how they could be improved. Obligations might be placed on companies installing such rigs to have significantly improved blow-out preventers, doing everything that they could to prevent a blow-out and an oil spill. However, in case there was an oil spill, it would be helpful for some clarification as to where responsibility lies and whether measures could be taken via insurance on the licensees, as indicated in my amendment. Could the Minister consider that?

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, raises some interesting points with her amendment but I wonder if its terms are quite right. She is asking for an ascertainment of financial capability at the time of the granting of a licence. However, if a requirement is to be imposed, it needs to be a continuous obligation—that is, something that is tested at regular intervals. A licence is granted at one point in time but a spill may occur many years later, when the financial position of a company is quite different.

Secondly, it is not so much a question of whether the applicant has sufficient funds, but of whether it has access to funds via insurance. It is probably much easier to demonstrate that there is adequate insurance to cover what might reasonably be expected to follow than to look at a company’s balance sheet. I also say to the noble Baroness, wearing my accountant’s anorak, that auditors do not certify things as being “true and accurate”. Doubtless if this amendment found favour with the Minister the correct wording could be formulated.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness; her contribution was extremely helpful. Certainly, it was not the intention that the time of applying for a licence should be the only time when financial capability was assessed. The insertion somewhere in the wording of “continuous” would be extremely helpful, as is her point about access to funds via insurance. The contrast I was trying to draw was with the Government’s policy on the nuclear industry. Currently it is the Government’s policy that a nuclear power company would have to be responsible for all the costs of decommissioning for some time—indeed, for the foreseeable future. In our previous debate we talked about 100 years or so. It seemed that equal responsibility should be taken by oil companies. I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her suggestions.