Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Newlove Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 25th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I support the Bill. The mental and physical damage of domestic abuse goes far beyond the pain and anguish caused at the time it occurs and stays with the victims and their families for many years, if not for the rest of their lives. It is important that we do all we can in this legislation to help victims to get out of abusive relationships and rebuild their lives.

I speak to Amendments 2 and 4, which propose to add parental alienation to the definition of abusive behaviour and therefore to every provision of the Bill. I fear that the proposed amendments may undo much of the work that the Bill seeks to do to protect victims of domestic abuse by swinging the pendulum of control back to the perpetrator of domestic abuse, rather than the victim, in making counterallegations.

Without meaning to sound flippant, at its extreme, any parent going through a break-up or divorce could find themselves of accused of domestic abuse under the Bill, and that is not what the Bill is intended for. I wonder whether the concern of the noble Lords who tabled these amendments is already covered by the combination of Clause 1(3)(e) and Clause 1(5). Alternatively, if the noble Lords behind the amendments have a specific instance in mind, they should look at where that could be catered for in specific clauses, but not as a wholesale change to the entire Bill in this way.

I can see these amendments having massive unintended consequences if they are included. I urge the Committee to accept neither change, to maintain the integrity of the Bill.

[Baroness Newlove (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I speak to Amendments 2 and 4 on parental alienation. As the former Victims’ Commissioner, over the years, I have spoken to many domestic abuse victim survivors, and I have spoken about parental alienation. I know that this issue has been raised several times over many years from several parts of the country. No doubt like others in this House, I have been inundated with briefings and emails from domestic abuse organisations and victim survivors.

Most recently, we have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and my noble friends, the domestic abuse commissioner, the Victims’ Commissioner, Dame Vera Baird, and the London victims’ commissioner, Claire Waxman, who all say that they are very concerned about parental alienation. As we have heard, the domestic abuse commissioner is very concerned about giving perpetrators of domestic abuse a weapon to silence their victims in the family courts.

Submissions to a Ministry of Justice report last year made it plain that parental alienation is a barrier to victims of abuse. Current practices around parental alienation expose domestic abuse survivors and their children to further harm. Once again, silencing the victims of abuse and erasing the voice of children in the courts leads to their being regularly misunderstood or overlooked.

The criminal justice system and the justice system have been part of my DNA since 2007, so it does not sit comfortably with me to say that I also disagree with the amendments. However, hand on heart, I say to my noble friend Lady Meyer that her speech was very emotional, heartfelt and powerful. The justice system is a very lonely place to be. It still feels very lonely, clinical and unemotional and my voice is unheard as I go through it every day. I agree with my noble friend Lady Helic and the speech by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. Parental alienation creates a loophole. It poses a huge threat to the validity of the Bill and will ultimately expose the survivors to the very harm that the Bill is designed to prevent. That is why I cannot support the amendments and ask my noble friends to withdraw or not to move them.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I am sympathetic to the amendments, with some caveats. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Meyer, for her amendments, which are important for us to address. They may give us an insight into some of the broader issues of the Bill.

One point of emphasis in the legislation is the victim. Contemporary culture tells us that we should believe the victim. I understand that for those of us frustrated over the years that domestic abuse was not taken seriously as a heinous crime, and sometimes dismissed when reported, leading to tragic consequences, it seems reasonable to be victim-centred—to put the victim centre-stage. However, my concern is to ensure that due process is not neglected in this endeavour and that we have nuance when we discuss who is the victim.

We know from recent events, such as the egregious case of Carl Beech, that believing the victim per se can lead to false allegations with terrible consequences. In the context of domestic break-ups and family issues, sometimes when the bitterness of broken relationships centres, for example, on the custody of children—we have heard many examples here today—ironically, or sadly, accusations of domestic abuse itself can be deployed and weaponised to paint one party as a perpetrator and another as a victim, alienating the accused parent from their children, but without any proof of guilt; it is just an allegation.

However, that allegation or accusation of domestic abuse in that instance is a terrible stigma. Imagine that your mum or dad is labelled an abuser by the other parent. That can obviously lead to great pain and parental alienation, all without anyone’s guilt being proven. I just want to remind the Committee of the important principle of innocent until proven guilty and make sure that is not sidelined.

Ironically, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, claims that the very concept of parental alienation can be misused and lead to false allegations and, of course, she is right. But that is true of any piece of legislation, or any rule. Parental alienation can be falsely alleged but so can domestic abuse, but we do not suggest that we should not have legislation on that.

We might ask why in this debate we are so cynical and disbelieving of those who claim that they are victims of parental alienation. That seems very one-sided in a culture where we are told that we should believe the victims all the time. It is a reminder that claiming to be a victim is not proof and needs to be evidenced; that is not just in relation to the one issue of parental alienation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Helic, tells us that fathers are the majority who claim parental alienation, and then seemed to imply that this was proof of the misuse of the concept by perpetrators. To be fair, that seemed to suggest that fathers were perpetrators of domestic abuse, which, as I say, is an accusation that goes too far for me. It reinforces my worry that there is a bias against one parent—often gendered—based less on evidence than on prejudice. I say that not as a men’s rights activist, as somebody accused me of being the other day when I made this point, but as a women’s rights activist who thinks that we should be fair in this discussion.

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[Baroness Newlove (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we have had many speakers on this amendment from my noble friend Lady Stroud, whom I support wholeheartedly, not just because of what the amendment says but because of my past work talking about foetal alcohol syndrome. If you look at what happens in domestic abuse situations, this could be an example of what we are talking about today.

It is so important that we recognise and name babies and the unborn in the Bill, because we are encouraging parents to come forward so that they can get the help they want and need for themselves and their baby at this crucial time. I thank the First 1001 Days Movement for its fantastic report Working for Babies, and the For Baby’s Sake Trust. It is a common-sense report that explains that children aged nought to two have been deprived of services and forgotten.

I greatly admire what has been said by other speakers on this amendment. I would like to reflect on pregnancy and childbirth: as a mother of three daughters, I know that it is a major milestone in their lives—or for any woman, and especially for fathers and mothers coming together as a family. That surely must be a motivation to change. Domestic abuse is prevalent in health service contacts, and I would like to have more discussions on health visitors, which is not in this Bill, and antenatal services. We really need to look at nought to two years and ensure that these vulnerable families get the support they need. More importantly, we hear many reports about there being no father in a family.

There are incalculable costs of domestic abuse as a baby that occur in later life, such as crime, poor academic attainment, adverse mental health experiences, depression, suicide, and the inability to stay in healthy relationships.

It is very late, and we have more to get through, but I wish the Government would look at this and have further discussions with my noble friend Lady Stroud and the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong, because it is so important that these babies are never forgotten. We must try and nurture them as we do seeds in the ground, to make sure they look healthy and have healthy lives.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

After our next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, I will be calling the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay.

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This is a very useful short debate, the key point being that the success of the commissioner depends very much on the personality of the postholder, and that is looking very good indeed. But it is also important that the legislative framework enables her to act as independently as possible, as so much of her credibility will rest on this.

[Baroness Newlove (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I speak to Amendments 16, 17, 18 and 19, which are of particular interest to me as the former Victims’ Commissioner for England and Wales. Noble Lords may remember that I had to make a complete new office, once the first commissioner, Louise Casey, stood down from the role to take on the Troubled Families Unit. I fully understand how the designate domestic abuse commissioner, Nicole Jacobs, feels. I have full confidence in her as domestic abuse commissioner, as she is very articulate and knowledgeable, and brings a different context to the role.

I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, on the flexibility of a part-time appointment. When I began as Victims’ Commissioner, it was part-time, because I had my other role as champion for anti-social behaviour. The Victims’ Commissioner role was more or less full-time, so I was working for many hours not counted for. I had a conversation with the Secretary of State, and then worked full-time. I therefore agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, on giving the commissioner the flexibility to have discussions with the Secretary of State, whether that role be full-time, four days, or three days. We should take a flexible approach.

Independence is an interesting word, and again I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that it comes down to the robustness of the individual. Independence to people outside can mean one of two things: that one is independent from government and is not saying “Yes Minister”. Independence can also provide armour when having discussions with the Secretary of State and other departments. But it is important for everybody to recognise that the domestic abuse commissioner is independent from government because they are advising the Government on what is essential.

Amendments 18 and 19 are the most important: I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, about appointing staff, which is something I had to challenge in my first three years as Victims’ Commissioner. It has to come from who you want to work with: if the Secretary of State picks your staff, this really does not show that you are independent. You need to feel comfortable with your staff, so that you can map out a plan of work you want to do and, to be perfectly honest, so that you can feel you have loyalty within your team and know you are going out there and giving independent advice back to government.

The commissioner must have the ability to appoint staff, but this depends on the budget as well. How big a budget you can have, and how much you can allocate to a proper team for a national role, is really important. I had six members in my team, finally, but this is a national role and it is so important that we support the domestic abuse commissioner with all the tools available.

On that point, I ask my noble friend the Minister: has the designate commissioner already got an office of her own, so that she can begin her role once the Bill gets Royal Assent? It is so important to have independence from government, so that victims and survivors of domestic abuse can have the confidence to come in to see the commissioner and can have clarity, and be able to feel, that they have an open, practical and personal office to come to.

As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, mentioned, it is robust experience and personality that will make the role excellent, and Nicole Jacobs is an ideal individual for it. I just want the Government to give her the tools to work with and the budget to enrol the staff that she should have to give confidence to those on the outside—so that victims and survivors of domestic abuse can believe in the role and the passion that Nicole Jacobs brings to it.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I wish to speak in support of the spirit of these amendments and the arguments so clearly explained by the noble Baronesses, Lady Hamwee and Lady Newlove, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. They have explained why these amendments are needed, certainly in spirit, even if the wording of some of them is not quite right for the face of the Bill.

If the commissioner position was made full-time and the commissioner was able to appoint staff, they could better determine the scope of work and allocation of resources to respond according to need. It is an important fact that the commissioner needs to have some control.

To take one example—I have already declared that I chaired the Commission on Alcohol Harm—we know that, in general, lower socioeconomic groups experience higher levels of alcohol-related harm, particularly violence. The poorest groups are most affected by alcohol-related domestic abuse. You see this with the number of instances of alcohol-related domestic abuse every year, which are fourteenfold in that group compared with the least deprived. The prevalence rate of alcohol-related domestic violence is five times higher among the most disadvantaged groups compared to the least disadvantaged.

This is a huge job. The commissioner must be free to make decisions on how the budget is used, have their own independent office space and not feel in any way stifled by any influence from government in the work that has to be undertaken.