Financial Services and Markets Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Report stage
Monday 7th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I have sympathy with all the amendments in the group, but I will focus my comments on Amendment 11 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, to which I added my name. As we have heard, this would require the FCA to establish a framework assessing banks’ and building societies’ provision of affordable credit.

Credit is a lifeline for families facing debt and financial hardship. According to a recent report, 60% of the clients of Christians Against Poverty—CAP—an organisation that is very active in my diocese, find that they have to borrow money to pay for household essentials and bills. They are not borrowing for luxuries: when credit is unavailable, they are left to delay essential spending and go without meeting their most basic needs. Sometimes, spending a little now will save you spending a lot more down the line.

I am extremely grateful for the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond. Credit inaccessibility has real consequences for those who are struggling the most. According to CAP, 47% of UK adults who currently have debt that they are struggling to manage have been unable to access their preferred credit option in the past two years.

This kind of financial exclusion means that we are locking vulnerable families into a cycle of poverty. We are depriving them of the tools they need to climb their way out. Unable to look beyond the pressing need to put dinner on the table, it is those with the most desperate need who are forced to sacrifice the most to get by. Left with limited choices, they are the ones most likely to enter riskier credit deals and to pay the greatest poverty premium. I have worked as a vicar in parishes where loans were enforced by men with baseball bats.

Since Committee, we have had the report of the Commons Treasury Committee on the Government’s financial inclusion strategy. The report highlights the need for

“proportionate firm-level financial inclusion metrics. These should focus on the largest providers and on markets where exclusion causes the greatest consumer harm”.

That specifically includes “affordable credit”. The report proposes that metrics

“should be designed to identify whether progress is being delivered consistently across firms and sectors”.

The committee also concluded:

“Voluntary action and pilots … cannot be the main driver of a national financial inclusion strategy unless there are clear routes to scale and clear consequences if voluntary action fails”.


What is proposed in this amendment clearly has much wider parliamentary backing than simply from the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and me. Indeed, several major lenders indicated to the Treasury Committee that they would be entirely happy to provide financial inclusion data as part of a statutory system.

This Bill, and this amendment to it, provide a sensible and practical solution to implement what the Treasury Committee advocated. Importantly, it will place responsibility for access to affordable credit on the lender, and introduce a clear framework by which banks and building societies can be assessed on how effectively they are meeting the financial needs of underserved communities. The new requirement for this framework to be kept constantly under review will ensure that those requirements remain open to scrutiny and adaptable to ever changing patterns of financial exclusion—patterns that could become more dynamic and entrenched as society rapidly changes. This amendment is an important step towards ensuring that our financial services meet the needs and uphold the dignity of real people, rather than expecting individuals to adapt to systems that too often exclude them from full participation in economic and community life. The only people who will not like it are the dodgy lenders who harass people in my diocese. I pray that we all support this amendment.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this interesting debate. I much look forward to the Minister’s response, particularly on child trust funds for those in that capacity. I agree with my noble friend Lord Mackinlay that we have a problem with HMRC administration of estates, with the risk of more chaos in prospect as IHT on pensions arrives. We should be finding a way to improve the system—for example, by widening the application of IHT423.

I will focus on Amendment 94 on financial education. This is an issue on which I have campaigned for a long time. It reflects my belief that financial capability is an essential life skill and, indeed, that it is essential if we are to have financial inclusion for those struggling to make ends meet. I will not repeat the strong case I made in Committee on 8 July which can be found in Hansard at column 149. Our revised amendment would require the FCA to take reasonable steps to work with the Money and Pensions Service, the Secretary of State for Education, relevant education bodies, providers of teacher training and professional development and industry bodies to support the effective delivery of financial education. It is good that I now have the support of the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer.

The financial decisions that people are expected to make are increasingly complex. Young people, as well as adults of all ages, need a working understanding of concepts such as compound interest, inflation, pensions, savings, taxation, borrowing and so on. My noble friend Lord Agnew was on the BBC this weekend. He has written about how 10 million adults in Britain right now have the numeracy of a primary school child, yet we are asking young people to make extremely significant financial decision—sometimes taking on tens of thousands of pounds of student debt—without necessarily giving them the grounding in financial concepts that would allow them to understand those decisions.

I was very grateful to the Minister for helping to arrange a meeting with the Money and Pensions Service. I recognise the work that it is doing. However, one concern I took away from that meeting was that a considerable amount of financial guidance focuses on moments when an individual has reached a major financial event, such as taking out a mortgage, dealing with a divorce, approaching retirement or experiencing financial difficulty. I believe we need to be more ambitious. Our objective should be to build financial capability throughout the population before people reach these moments and, indeed, to encourage sound investment and savings for a rainy day.

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Committee stage
Tuesday 14th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I will take the noble Lord’s example away. I have given him a clear statement and he makes a reasonable point. I think there is an answer to it, but I will not just make it up; I want to give him a clear answer on that. Perhaps I can move on and deal with one or two other concerns.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

I am sorry to delay things yet further. We have had a lot of discussion about theoretical examples of what might happen. I tried to give your Lordships’ Committee a particular example of a case against the then Mayor of London. It was a notorious case and it took months in the courts to decide whether he was acting as a public authority or in his private capacity. Therefore, how can the Minister seem to think it so simple to decide when somebody is acting in a private capacity and when they are acting as a public authority, given that the one case that really got the public attention spent months in the courts before it was eventually determined that on that occasion he had been acting in a private capacity? I am sure that everybody can remember the case.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I am afraid that I am not familiar with that case, but I take the right reverend Prelate’s point. The way I have described this shows that in fact this is limited in intent; free speech is possible in a personal capacity. I will come on to say a little more about that and about decision-makers, because I know that we need to clear up those points and I am conscious of time.

The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, highlighted that Ministers in the Scottish Government would be captured by this provision. As I have explained, as Ministers in the Scottish Government are public authorities for the purpose of human rights, they do not have ECHR protections in their public functions. It is clearly right that this provision should apply to Scottish Ministers to ensure that communities in Scotland are protected from these divisive statements, and foreign policy is a reserved matter. Additionally, Clause 1 applies only in relation to procurement and investment decisions in the exercise of public functions. Therefore, Clause 4 would not apply to statements made by Scottish Ministers about how they tend to act in their private lives.

Ministerial Code: Investigation of Potential Breach

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I will not speculate on what might happen under a different Government. I remind the noble Lord that there have been a number of reports on ethics and integrity, including from Nigel Boardman and the Committee on Standards in Public Life, and, as I said recently, we will lay our responses in Parliament in due course. However, I draw the House’s attention again to Sir Laurence Magnus, who has been appointed and has set off in a robust way. His report, which I promised would come out in May, is due to be published today—it may already have been or will be any minute.

I also draw attention to the fact that we strengthened the remit of the independent adviser in 2022. Slightly contrary to what the noble Lord was saying, the adviser now has the ability to initiate an investigation under the Ministerial Code after consulting with the Prime Minister, and the normal expectation is that the Prime Minister would agree to such an investigation. We have also updated the code to include more specific references to the duty on Ministers to provide the independent adviser with information reasonably necessary for carrying out the role. As I said before, we have also strengthened the arrangements for the office of the independent adviser, providing him with a dedicated secretariat of civil servants. However, I come back to the point I made before to the noble Baroness: this must be elective—it has to be democratic. That is why the Prime Minister decides on these matters.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I am struggling here. It seems to be a basic principle that justice should not only be done but seen to be done. These processes seem so arcane and opaque that I wonder whether the noble Baroness can assure us how this process passes that test—or does it not apply to the Ministerial Code?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I simply do not agree with the right reverend Prelate. The Prime Minister has been clear that professionalism, integrity and accountability are core values of the Government. A number of inquiries have been set up by the Prime Minister. He has moved quickly to set them up and to take steps when they have been completed. Most recently, he moved very quickly on the matter of the Home Secretary, which was causing a distraction earlier in the week. He consulted the independent adviser, who advised that on this occasion further investigation was not necessary, and the Prime Minister accepted that advice. As I said before, we need to be very careful to ensure that the Prime Minister has ultimate responsibility for the Ministerial Code. He reissued it in December when he came to power and he has made it clear that it is important that it is followed.