Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Crawley

Committee stage
Thursday 23rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I find it difficult to answer that. My understanding is that there has been extensive dialogue with officials across all these portfolios, as noble Lords would expect: that is how government runs. In my areas of responsibility, which do not include food these days, there is extensive dialogue between departments, and that is very helpful. That has been the process here and will continue to be the process.

[Baroness Crawley (Lab)]

If there has been extensive dialogue between officials, and presumably organisations that advise the Government, such as Food Standards Scotland, why are they lobbying us about the defects of the Bill?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I have had correspondence with these bodies. Certainly, in my other work I deal with the Food Standards Agency. It is very helpful and it links with government. If I may, I think I will now move on.

Consumer Rights Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Crawley

Monday 24th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

We felt that it helped to clarify that there was not a gap. In Committee, we went through a number of examples about which individual noble Lords were very concerned. Having checked through the examples, we are able to show to people’s satisfaction that the thing would be clear. Doing it this way in the Bill achieves that effect. However, I want to add a further reassurance. I am today committing the Government to reviewing the practical effect of the notice requirement within two years of commencement of this part of the Bill. I have listened to what has been said and we have made changes to try to clarify this. We want to have a good enforcement regime—

[Baroness Crawley (Lab)]

I thank the Minister and do not wish to detain the House, but does she not agree that a clear lack of definition within the Bill of “routine inspection” boosts the confidence of potential rogue traders, who will take that to court on a technicality?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. We believe that the amendment put forward clearly defines the term “routine inspection” for the purpose of this power of entry. We clearly set out the exemptions in the Bill and I commend both our proposed amendments to try to clarify the circumstances, and the review within two years that I have offered, in response to the concerns that have been expressed about exactly how this will work. The powers and safeguards strike the right balance. It is an important area; the notice provision is strongly supported, particularly by the small business sector—not so much by big business—which we all care about because of the huge contribution that it makes to our economy. I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

Consumer Rights Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Crawley

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Crawley]

The noble Baroness mentioned that when it comes to a new business, there would be a power for trading standards officers to observe. What is meant by “observe”? Does it mean going behind the counter, as my noble friend Lady Hayter asked, or does it mean “observe” as if the officer was a member of the public? In that case, it would hardly be worth walking in.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

It means observing as though the officer was a member of the public, but obviously a test purchase can be undertaken. The officer can speak to the trader and agree that there should be an exemption, in which case the exemption would apply. Moreover, if the officer suspects a breach, that also implies.

Consumer Rights Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Crawley

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I am afraid that you have also heard a lot of my voice. I was hoping for some Divisions to give us a rest. Perhaps the Committee would allow me first to discuss Clause 51 in general and then talk about the amendment. The right in this clause is a backstop for consumers and traders. It is an important provision but, in many cases, will not be engaged. This is because, in most cases, a contract will set out the price for the service. In many cases, the trader will do this out of good will or best practice. However, there is also a legal requirement for many traders to give this information.

For contracts covered by our old friend the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, traders must provide information about the price before the consumer is bound by the contract. If the price cannot be calculated in advance then, where the regulations apply, the trader has to provide information on how the price is to be calculated. The information requirements under these regulations may also cover delivery charges and other costs, and traders are prevented from charging any costs additional to the payment for the trader’s main obligation unless the consumer expressly agrees to that additional payment.

For services outside the scope of the regulations, other regimes apply—for example, the comprehensive system of regulation overseen by the FCA. There is a very clear principle there that all communications must be “fair, clear and not misleading”. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised the question of longer-run, ongoing fees and charges. Certainly I have found that with my ISAs, which I have now had to stop, the providers have got much better in recent years at saying what the charges and costs are. Maybe that is the effect of some of these regulations.

There will also be a very small number of other cases—where the service is outside the scope of these regulations and they are not covered by other requirements—where the trader does not provide information about the price. Clause 51 protects consumers and traders in that small number of cases, in that the consumer will have to pay the trader,

“a reasonable price … and no more”.

This clause is about protecting those consumers.

Amendment 49B was debated at great length in the other place. The point was made that the information listed in this amendment is needed for the consumer to assess what is a reasonable price. I agree with that. The consumer should have this information, and possibly more, to assess what they are buying. However, this clause is a backstop for the very few cases where the price or the method of calculating it has not been agreed in advance.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter and Lady Drake, talked about extra costs being added after the event. I have a graphic vision of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, landing safely, I hope, after his Ryanair flight. I would just add to the debate that the Advertising Standards Authority takes action on misleading prices. Firms must advertise the full price, including compulsory costs. There may be a case to be made here, although the business model of some airlines is to have low core prices, from which we benefit, and then to charge add-ons, which the very organised can avoid. However, the consumer must have agreed to the additional payment before entering into the contract. If not, the regulations are clear that the consumer does not have to pay. If the consumer does pay, the money may be reimbursed.

To conclude, our view is that there is already legislation in place to ensure that consumers have clear and accurate price information and that Clause 51 does what we are seeking to achieve. In the light of those explanations, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Crawley (Lab)]

To go back to the Minister’s point about the fairness and the reasonableness that have to be met, given my noble friend’s example of our noble friend and his famous holiday, would it be fair on him as a consumer to have to prioritise the availability of a printer when he looks to having a holiday? Surely the priorities will be pleasure, climate and the type of hotel or holiday accommodation, and not necessarily there being a printer so that he can print out his boarding pass. That is not fair on him as a consumer.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Crawley, for her intervention and for bringing the whole issue to life to an even greater extent. While I am waiting for a bit of advice, I would say that there are different business models. I used to go abroad on business and I got quite frustrated when I could not print out my boarding pass. Some airlines allow you just to show the boarding pass on your phone or your iPad. That has obviously been a great step forward.

On fairness, airlines are a competitive industry. If consumers do not like the deal that the airlines are giving then, to some extent, we vote with our feet. I have explained the frustration that I have had and how I dealt with it. It is not obvious to me how you could resolve this under the general heading of fairness. There are advantages and disadvantages to the way that services are supplied, and this is perhaps something for us to contemplate.

Consumer Rights Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Crawley

Wednesday 15th October 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Crawley]

The Minister has reiterated a number of times the role of trading standards in crucial product recalls. However, does she agree that the serious cuts to the trading standards departments across the country and throughout local government over the last number of years have impaired the effectiveness that she talks about?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving me the opportunity to say what a good job I think trading standards do in many of those very difficult cases, having worked with them for many years. It is true that many government services have suffered from cuts as a result of the need to get the economy back on track and deal with the deficit problems that we inherited.

As noble Lords know, spending and resourcing decisions about local trading standards are made by the individual local authorities. They, rather than central government, are best placed to make decisions about the enforcement needs of their local communities. However, I have talked to them about how you can focus and get local authorities to focus on the real areas of importance, and they are trying to do that in often deeply difficult circumstances. BIS greatly values their work protecting consumers from everything from rogue traders to scammers and so on. That is one of the reasons why we have set up the National Trading Standards Board and work with the Local Government Association on trying to improve enforcement in local authority areas in important areas. Of course, product safety and risk of death always come very high on their agenda.