Recycling
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts(6 years, 4 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress is being made towards establishing a single national standard for household recycling.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)
My Lords, England’s recycling rate increased to 44.9% in 2016. There is certainly more to do, and with WRAP we are working to enable households to recycle a single set of materials. In England, 88% of local authorities collect all five widely recycled materials—paper, card, plastic bottles, glass and cans. Many more now collect mixed, rigid plastics and separate food waste. Work is under way to standardise materials to be collected and recycled.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
My Lords, I recognise that some progress has been made and that we need long-term objectives. However, there is a very poor understanding of the rules on recycling and about the destructive effects of, for example, black plastic, plastic fruit netting and plastic-coated coffee cups. Does the Minister recognise that many of us—who have experience with the public sector—doubt that local authorities will ever make the rapid progress that we need and excite the population to recycle in the way that they need to, unless we have one, simple system?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, that is precisely why we have published the report on a consistency framework, because we want better communications with householders and an improvement in the recyclability of packaging materials. There are some really good examples of what can be done. Stroud has seen a 14% increase in recycling, and Maldon an 11% increase, in one year. Indeed, the council which my noble friend Lady Williams of Trafford led for such a long time now has a recycling rate of 61.3% and is the only really urban local authority on that top list. We are working particularly with urban local authorities to improve the situation.
Local Authorities: Recycling
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts(6 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to issue guidance to local authorities clarifying what can and cannot be recycled.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)
My Lords, we are committed to achieving higher recycling rates. In May this year, the Waste and Resources Action Programme, WRAP, published updated guidelines for local authorities on what can and what cannot be recycled. I shall be placing a copy in the Library of the House. With WRAP and the waste industry, we are working to ensure that more is recyclable. Information on what householders can recycle locally is available on the Recycle Now website.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
Does my noble friend the Minister recognise the frustration of consumers, who despite the good work to which he has referred are frequently confused about what is recyclable and by the variations in the rules and indeed even in the colours of the bins in local areas? Will he do his best to simplify the system further into a single set of clear rules for what is recycled and what is not? For example, I believe black plastic of any kind wrecks the recycling. Will he initiate a public information campaign using social media to bring about a step change in recycling, both among consumers and in business?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend that we need to encourage clarity. Indeed, that is what WRAP’s consistency framework is intended to achieve. It is of course for local authorities, in consultation with residents, to determine the most appropriate arrangements, but the recycling guidelines already make clear what is recyclable and what is not. The Recycle Now campaign uses social and digital media. Work is ongoing to address the issue of black plastic.
Water Bill
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
My Lords, I would briefly like to intervene, first to thank the Minister for the efforts that he has made to address concerns and to make these amendments this afternoon. The Bill is hugely complex and the amendments are extensive, as my noble friend Lord Moynihan put it so succinctly. However, I feel that these provisions will add more complexity. So it is all the more important that the Minister confirms the plans that I know that Open Water has to summarise all the many regulatory provisions on water in the Bill and elsewhere, in order that customers, entrants, companies and investors can understand the complex web of rules and subordinate legislation that is planned, providing a force for simplicity. I believe that the good sense of our administrators is the key thing here and that is actually more important than to bring in a special new procedure. I support the amendments that the Government have made.
Lord De Mauley
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contribution to this debate. I have listened to them extremely carefully. I thank my noble friend Lord Moynihan for welcoming the changes that we are making to the Bill to enable incumbent water companies to exit the non-household market for retail services. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, as well, for his comments in that regard.
I thank, too, the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, for his intervention, and I hope that he understands that I thought it best to allow my noble friend Lady Parminter to explain her amendment before I addressed the question that he raised. Before I get into that question, I address the question raised by my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe. She raised a very valid point about the additional levels of complexity added by the retail exit provisions. The noble Baroness also raised the issue of bureaucracy. Indeed, she has done so throughout the course of the Bill and has worked tirelessly on the subject. I strongly agree with her on that matter. In that regard, I highlight the work that Open Water is doing in presenting water regulation in guidance and online. It is presenting the information in a way that helps customers, entrance companies and investors to understand the sector, and which meets their particular information requirements.
These proposed new clauses set out, in as much detail as possible, the basis on which we will establish regulations to enable exits. We will now need to move from the high-level, in-principle statements regarding the case for exits to tackle the detailed, practical implications for companies and their customers. In doing this, we will need to consult widely. We will also provide further opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny through the draft affirmative procedure.
I think that all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate have commented on the breadth of these powers. On Report, I put on record our view that the only practical way of responding to the will of the House on this matter would be to take a very wide-ranging power.
The question of whether to allow exits has been discussed at all stages during the passage of the Bill in both Houses. The overall policy of retail exits has been discussed at length. Powerful speeches from my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lord Selborne, the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and others demonstrated the strength of feeling in this House about the matter. I have tabled the amendments before us today in response to that pressure.
Throughout our debates on this subject there has been a broad consensus that we should allow for retail exits in such a way as to meet three important criteria: they must be for non-household customers; they must be undertaken voluntarily; and they must ensure the ongoing protection of customers. This is what the amendments do. The breadth of these powers is, unfortunately, unavoidable in this case. The debates in your Lordships’ House have ably set out the high-level principles in support of the case for retail exit. Nevertheless, further detailed work is required to address the practical implications of this change.
A number of changes will be required to the Water Industry Act 1991 and the detailed thinking has yet to be done by any of the interested parties on what these might be, what would be involved, how the implications for customers would be managed and the type of safeguards that would be required to avoid any risk of forced exit or separation. None of these is an inconsequential issue and it is clear that substantial further consultation and engagement will be required. We will consult widely on these matters. Following this there will be a further opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny under the draft affirmative procedure.
Noble Lords have highlighted that the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee met yesterday to consider the new retail exit powers. I apologise to the committee for the inconvenience caused to it. We are very grateful to the committee for its report. I particularly appreciate its meeting at such short notice and I welcome the important contribution that it has made to this debate. I welcome the fact that the committee does not consider the powers conferred by the proposed new clauses to be inappropriate. The focus of the committee’s concerns has been on the relatively late stage in the passage of the Bill at which these proposed new clauses have been tabled rather than on their content. The committee did, however, recommend a strengthened affirmative resolution procedure for the exit regulations on their first use.
I fully understand and sympathise with concerns that the new provisions have not received detailed scrutiny as they have been tabled at this late stage. I agree with the committee’s view that, given the permissive nature of these powers and the need for further work on the detail, extensive further engagement is required with both parliamentarians and other interested parties. Our amendments already include a consultation requirement before any regulations may be made.
I can confirm that before tabling the first exit regulations we will consult widely and that we will ensure that there are many further opportunities for all interested parties to comment, and I can be clear that the Government’s use of the powers will take account of issues raised during that consultation. I believe that this extensive and wide-ranging approach to consultation will provide the level of engagement envisaged by the committee. Consultation of this nature with industry experts is an important part of the policy development process and it reflects that used in Section 102 of the Local Transport Act 2008—the procedure to which the committee refers.
I fully accept that we need to ensure that parliamentarians are given adequate time to scrutinise the precise wording of the proposed regulations before the final draft is laid before Parliament. We will therefore commit to publishing a draft of the regulations well in advance of laying the final regulations before Parliament so that there is a real opportunity for changes to be made to address any concerns that parliamentarians may have. We will also send a copy of these indicative regulations to the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Select Committee in the other place so that it has an opportunity to comment on our intentions.
I believe that these measures fulfil the spirit and practical implications of the enhanced affirmative processes detailed in Section 102 of the Local Transport Act. In addition to the detailed consultation, these powers will be subject to the draft affirmative resolution procedure, which means that there will be further opportunities for parliamentary scrutiny.
The use of strengthened affirmative procedures for delegated legislation is unusual, and rightly so. There must be a very strong case for the use of such a procedure. The Government have brought forward these retail exit amendments in response to the level of pressure across your Lordships’ House. The amendments seek to provide clarity as to what matters are to be within the scope of the regulations, while delivering precisely what your Lordships asked for. Exit regulations would be the subject of extensive consultation and of debate in both this House and the other place.
I agree with the committee that further scrutiny and debate on these matters are required and I am very grateful for its work in raising these important matters. Given the history of these changes and the recommendations that the committee has made with regard to future scrutiny and engagement, I should like to place on the record that my department will continue to keep all interested parties up to date with progress on this area. I have no doubt that the relevant Minister will be very happy to make themselves available to parliamentarians from both Houses for further discussions as we develop the detailed plans for use of the regulation-making powers.
As I said, I am very grateful for the work of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I will reflect on its other comments and will reply formally in due course. In particular, paragraph 6 of the committee’s most recent report, to which the noble Lord, Lord Marks, referred, focuses on the importance of protections for customers. I confirm that ensuring that the interests of all customers are fully protected will be the guiding principle that underpins this work. These protections will embrace both the household customers who will stay with the incumbent water company and the non-household customers who, in the event of an exit, will be transferred to a retail licensee.
Concern was expressed that some companies may be seeking exit as a route to short-term financial gain. During Committee, my noble friend Lord Moynihan highlighted a report published by Macquarie, a major investor in the water sector, arguing for exit. This report identifies long-term benefits for customers from greater consolidation and efficiency in the retail market. It also identifies potential financial benefits for those companies that transfer or “sell” their customers to a licensee.
The enabling powers that we have been discussing today would allow the Secretary of State to put in place a framework governing the process of transferring customers and to place appropriate boundaries on the value that may be extracted by the exiting companies and on the costs that may be passed on to customers. For example, these provisions will enable the Secretary of State to place conditions on consent to an exit application, such as profit sharing with affected customers and compliance with charging rules to ensure that transferred customers are no worse off.
Water Bill
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts(10 years, 3 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
“Duties of the Secretary of State
The Secretary of State shall take such steps as are necessary to—(a) ensure that bodies carrying out—(i) the provisions of this Act;(ii) water and associated environmental regulations under other Acts;(iii) regulations and codes made under sub-paragraphs (i) and (ii) above; and(iv) equivalent regulations and requirements made under European Union legislation,minimise bureaucratic burdens on affected undertakings and others; and(b) reduce bureaucracy, overlap and waste within the various bodies concerned with water and established by statute or by European Union legislation by defining their respective duties clearly and transparently in one place and on one website.”
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
My Lords, as a new peer—like a new entrant to the water industry—I have been trying to understand this important industry: who does what and where power lies. At Tesco, I was regulated by more than 30 bodies, so I have some experience, but I have found this sector very hard to get my head around. My last job in Whitehall, under my elegant and noble friend Lord Heseltine, was about minimising and improving regulation, occasionally with success. I also worked on land drainage and flood protection in what is now Defra when the Thames Barrier was still being built, so I have great sympathy with my noble friend the Minister today—and for the victims of the floods.
When I look at a regulated area, I always try to think of the impact on business, consumers and others affected, and take a long-term view. From all these perspectives, the scale and complexity of this Bill—all 230 pages of it—worry me. It introduces more competition, which I very much welcome in principle, but we also have a new administrative spoke in the wheel of water management—the market operator, whose role the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, sought on Tuesday to bring into the light of day. My amendment would introduce a new clause giving duties to the Secretary of State and seeks to do two things. I will address the second part first because I think no one can object to it. It is about transparency.
I want an explanation and/or map, not on several websites as exist at present, but in one special place that would enable a new entrant, an investor whether in water resources or stocks, to understand the system. I want everyone’s duties set out clearly and transparently in one place. How helpful it would be to find in one place not only the list of bodies that can regulate or affect water and every kind of regulation but also exactly what their powers are and where and when they will be exercised. For example, this explanatory map would explain when the Environment Agency is able to intervene—a concern my noble friend Lady Parminter expressed on Tuesday—or when we can expect the delayed reforms on abstraction to take effect. It would help with the confusion over debt-collection powers, which we have just discussed. That clarity would also reduce overlap and waste. I know from working in business that having clear responsibilities that are well documented and understood cuts waste and improves implementation and compliance. We should of course put the map on the web, perhaps in a special internet app that all of us could download. The web is where enterprising people and new entrants search. It is cheap and easy.
The first part of my amendment is more contentious because it is about changing the way regulators, public servants and their ministerial masters behave. It is a requirement to minimise bureaucracy in every aspect of water, sewerage and abstraction, from negotiating at the highest level in Brussels to creating the humblest code. If lots of agencies and departments operate a cornucopia of rules and regulations, they spend too much time asking undertakers, consumers and each other for the same information, talking to each other and sometimes rowing, writing submissions and guidance, correcting errors and even fighting judicial reviews. Much of that activity is created by confusion and sometimes by inconsistency, which the proposed process would help to prevent. The bureaucratic burdens created cost money. That is not only wasteful but has to be paid for. I suspect that in the water system, with its regulated system of returns through Ofwat, this money often comes from consumers without benefiting anyone else—or it consumes taxpayers’ money, which, with the legacy of the deficit, we cannot afford.
This amendment would require all organisations involved in the governance and administration of water to think in a clearer, simpler way and, I hope, avoid the need for future deregulation and simplification. It should have wide support. I beg to move.
Lord Crickhowell
My Lords, my noble friend made a formidable speech at Second Reading in which she launched her assault on overregulation. Already today, dealing with other amendments, a number of noble Lords spoke about the difficulty of following the details of this legislation. I have explained that despite my experience of trying to regulate part of the water industry, I find the Bill almost totally incomprehensible. At Second Reading, I said that it is the most incomprehensible Bill I have come across in 43 years in both Houses. This is partly because it amends two other major pieces of legislation. Indeed, when I struggled to draft some amendments and decided the task was beyond me, I got down from the shelves in the Library one of those earlier Acts and realised that it was not going to get me much further. We have also been debating a series of regulations, some of them not yet known.
Quite clearly, the subject my noble friend has raised is of great importance. It has already been suggested that following the completion of the passage of the Bill the Government must try to bring together in a simple, co-ordinated way the principal points, clauses and requirements of the Bill. That argument has been strengthened, reinforced and added to by my noble friend. Her idea that the principal matters be brought together on a single website is admirable. I do not know whether anything quite like that has ever been done in government before.
The trouble with government departments is that they tend to be very self-contained and self-sufficient. Getting them to work together in a co-ordinated way is sometimes extremely difficult. That makes the job even more difficult for the consumer because if you do not know what the legislation and regulations are and you do not even know the appropriate department dealing with it, you are likely to be lost. Following the passage of the Bill, the Government must give some very careful thought to how the public, small businesses and those who are being regulated are to be brought to understand exactly what they have to do, what benefits may accrue if they do it and what penalties may accrue if they fail to do it.
There is an urgent requirement here, and it should be a priority, but perhaps not of the Minister’s department. I think it goes wider than that. It is probably an issue for the heart of government to see how this should be done. I hope that even if the Minister cannot give an immediate, clear-cut answer—and I suspect he will not be able to—he will undertake to take this matter away to his colleagues and ask that it is looked at by those who have the authority to see that something is done on this matter.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
My Lords, I am grateful for the trenchant support I have had from this side of the House for my efforts to reduce bureaucracy and promote clarity and transparency, especially from my noble friend Lord Crickhowell. My noble friend Lord Selborne talked about the possibility of the map I proposed being made on a catchment area basis. However, my experience of broadband, where there is a county-by-county map, is that it is not very effective. One of the things I was looking for was to have all the rules, regulations, agencies and requirements in one place on the one website. That can certainly be on the gov.uk website, as the Minister has kindly suggested, but they all need to come together so that a consumer, an investor, or a water undertaker who may be bringing in a new reservoir can see the whole piece. I would find that bottom-up approach hugely valuable. I feel that the documents that have already been made available are a start, but they do not—
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
They are, but I was suggesting that we have a website that brought all the different things together in one place, not just the helpful notes that the Minister has put forward, and which takes people through the rules.
I am extremely grateful for the Minister’s support in reducing bureaucracy and in outlining the different things that have been done to achieve that end. However, it is all the more important to bring the various requirements together to make it clear what is happening. We could bring about a quiet revolution of clarity and transparency and make entry into the industry much less forbidding if we could bring what is being set out in these different laws and by these different agencies into one place. Of course I welcome the idea of putting those on to one website, but I will study what the Minister has said and consider whether further thought needs to be given to how that might be done, to find a way forward. Perhaps we can also do some policy formation in the Bishops’ Bar. I thank my noble friend, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Spicer
My Lords, this is pretty standard stuff: first you legislate to weaken competition, which is the true protector of the consumer; then you legislate for consumer rights. That way lies socialism.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
My Lords, perhaps I could seek clarification about the effect of the amendment, which it seems concerns individual complaints as well as collective ones. As I see it, having been in business, complaints are normally dealt with by the business or authority to which they come. You do not want to have special schemes unless there is something pretty serious and bad. I want to understand the purport of this amendment—if it is actually bringing in a whole load of new things that are going to be done by an authority or statute rather than by the company that is meant to be doing the right thing for the consumer, I am concerned.
Baroness Northover
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for his amendments, which, as he laid out, relate to the vital question of consumer protection. Most noble Lords, bar one, seemed to be supportive of his emphasis. We all wish to see an increasingly consumer-focused water industry and we welcome the opportunity to debate these matters.
The noble Lord thinks that, at the moment, this provision applies only to a single claimant. I will address whether the consumer redress scheme includes complaints made by groups of customers as well as complaints made by individual ones. I can clarify that the ability to address consumer complaints, whether they relate to a single customer or to a group of customers, is already reflected in this clause, which is drafted in such a way as to be inclusive rather than exclusive. To be clear, it covers complaints by both individual customers and groups of customers collectively—I want to put that very clearly on the record. The noble Lord might like to know that CCWater has already successfully taken up complaints on behalf of groups of customers, for example in a conurbation where a number of neighbours wished to challenge their surface water drainage charges. I hope, therefore, that he is reassured on the first area that he flagged up here.
On Amendment 136, we agree that consumer protection is an important matter in the context of the Bill. I also put on record and inform noble Lords that this is an area where action is already being taken. The industry, Ofwat and the Consumer Council for Water are working together to improve their collective approach to consumer redress. An independent dispute-resolution scheme is being established to give all customers an independent route for resolving their complaints without having to go to court. The new scheme aims to provide a transparent mechanism for resolving complaints that have reached a deadlock under current arrangements. Work on this scheme is already well advanced, with all the water companies having signalled their support, and I note what my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe said about the industry being central to this.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, rather late in the day we are approaching a rather important issue, which concerns the powers of Ofwat to reopen a price review within five years if circumstances change or if information received from companies on their performance raises serious issues. Considering Ofwat’s role in a more dynamic market, this seems very important.
At present, we set the price maxima for five years. Companies can reopen the five-year settlement if circumstances change; for example, if they need to expend more capital than was allowed for in the price review, they can go back in. Thames Water went back in to see Ofwat about additional money for the super-sewer. It was knocked back by Ofwat but it had the right to ask. I imagine that companies do not do it more often because if the company reopens the price settlement, Ofwat has the right to reopen it as well. It is not a big feature but I am arguing that there should be an equivalence.
Ofwat does not have the power to initiate a reopening. It uses informal powers, and has been quite successful in negotiating with some companies over the current five-year period for reductions in prices because of changed circumstances—mainly reflecting the fact that the cost of capital was significantly less in practice than had been allowed for when the price review was concluded. In reality, as my noble friend Lord Hanworth has pointed out more than once, that allowance for capital has permitted a significant degree of profit enhancement and dividend enhancement by companies, and it is important that Ofwat keeps an eye on this.
Amendment 137 would allow Ofwat to reopen the settlement if it thought that the way in which it was operating was no long appropriate to the economic circumstances, or that the company’s own behaviour gave it cause to reopen it because the terms of the settlement were no longer appropriate. Amendment 146 would provide some background for this. It would require water undertakers to provide information to Ofwat on a regular, annual basis on their financial affairs. This could be dealt with separately from the other amendment, but we have grouped them together for these purposes and there is an interrelationship. If this is a different provision from the very detailed cost breakdown that Ofwat now requires from companies in advance of the price review every five years, and if we move to a more competitive market, the details of that form of regulation may not have to be so onerous over time.
This amendment looks at how companies perform during the price period. It will provide a big picture of how the financial operation as a whole is working out. As we have constantly reiterated, there is a problem in this industry of a vertically integrated regional monopoly, with higher levels of gearing, dividends—they have been at over 90% of income over the past few years—and rates of return on assets, in a relatively low-risk industry, paying relatively low levels of taxation. There are issues about the totality of the finances of the sector that a regulator ought to be free to query. It certainly should have information on it. Your Lordships may have heard a recent programme about this on the BBC’s “File on 4”. I did not agree with all of it, but it pointed out, for example, that some of these companies have at least seven levels of executive decisions before reaching the real decision-makers at ownership level. That applied to Thames Water in particular.
It is important that Ofwat can challenge the way in which these companies conduct their financial affairs. Amendment 146 would provide it with the information for doing so and Amendment 137 would allow it to reopen the price settlement if it saw that there were serious and endemic concerns about the way in which a company was operating, or about changes in the cost of capital or the level of corporate internal transfer pricing and so forth. It is important that Ofwat understands the total system and it is important that it has the ability to reopen the settlement. Of late, water companies have received fairly bad publicity because of their overall financial structure. At the moment, the regulatory system cannot really address that and does not have the information needed in order to address it. This is a gap in Ofwat’s powers that needs to be filled. I beg to move.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
My Lords, we should look very carefully at this proposal for an increase in regulation. Water and sewerage are long-term matters and the great need is to have investment in resilience, with the right and proper regulatory framework. Ofwat seems to have got tougher in recent times. It is right to have a five-year timescale or we will not get the investment that is needed for resilience. The entrepreneurs involved will assume that if profits go up, perhaps because they have improved efficiency, they will immediately get a call from Ofwat reopening the five-year settlement, triggered perhaps by articles in tabloid newspapers—the sort of thing that will not be good for investment in this vital industry.
Lord Moynihan
I support that view. I completely understand where the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, is coming from, but there is a serious potential risk here to the confidence of the investment community in the water market. I hope that my noble friend takes that into account when considering extending the reasons for opening up price reviews.
Water Bill
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts(10 years, 3 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has persuasively outlined the case for this Bill and has been very helpful in providing advance information to all sides of the House, for which I thank him. I was especially struck today by the list of innovations that he and my noble friend Lord Moynihan outlined. These are just the sort of things that improve life for business and consumers in a quiet way.
This is a highly technical subject. We have a 230-page Bill to scrutinise and I know that many noble Lords are better versed in the intricacies than I am. However, I want to make three general points. I come to the subject as a businesswoman, including a directorship in a UK company, 2 Sisters Food Group, that uses water in its production, and as a farmer’s daughter. We had two large lakes on the farm where I was brought up, a constant menace to generations of adventurous children like ourselves. The Bill offers the prospect of making such lakes valuable assets in which to invest rather than simply a dangerous liability.
One of my main interests is improving UK competitiveness, so that we are not left behind in the global race. One key to competitiveness is good infrastructure and investment in things like water. Water is, of course, a central part of industrial production in a range of sectors, from beverages, such as whisky, to car manufacturing. I have chosen these examples because they are both important export industries too. Water is important in many businesses and, as others have said, is essential to life and to civilisation.
With our population expected to rise to 70 million by 2027, our water infrastructure will come under huge pressure, especially in the south and east. That brings me to my first point. Are we doing enough? Does the Minister think that this Bill will encourage the large-scale investment that we need? Many believe that in decades to come we will need major strategic and co-ordinated investments in the water sector; for example, by providing for large-scale movements from surplus to deficit areas. Are we doing enough in this Bill or, crucially, somewhere else to provide for this possibility?
If you have visited the Pont du Gard, Rome or Bath, you will know that the Romans had the right approach to the subject. Can we learn from experience overseas? I have talked to the Californians about the problems of raising revenue for water schemes for both consumers and agriculture in the Napa Valley. I have talked to the Spanish about the more successful catchment investments that they have made to support salad and other crops in southern Spain, which serve the UK market in winter. I recognise that the Bill is not seeking to do everything but it is important for your Lordships’ House to understand the wider strategic context.
Secondly, I am concerned about the quality of our regulatory regimes. Water is an important example and, as it is a natural monopoly without substitutes of the kind you find in energy or telecoms, the regulatory regime is even more important. I am very glad to see the increase in competition that will be encouraged and to hear today of the positive experience in Scotland. However, I have a concern that the new regime for competition with its new market operator, appeals to the Competition and Markets Authority, charging guidance and charging codes, and any new regulations made under the new powers, when fitted together with the existing Ofwat regime and the work done by the Environment Agency could be bureaucratic and therefore prone to error.
Having too many layers and agencies can risk regulatory arbitrage, confusion and excess bureaucracy. More expensive people will be hired and they may waste resources chasing each other and having endless meetings. Consumers, business, the water industry and Parliament will not be quite sure who to hold to account on what. Will the Minister let us know what steps are being taken to prevent overlap and confusion in this vital utility and perhaps comment on the scale of new staff and administrative costs that he expects to be incurred?
My third and final point relates to how we ensure the right balance between the all-important current consumer and investment for the long-term resilience of the system. Ofwat is to be given a new overarching duty, on which many speakers have touched today. Under this resilience objective, Ofwat will have to secure the long-term resilience of water supply and sewerage systems,
“as regards environmental pressures, population growth and changes in consumer behaviour”.
Following discussion in the other place Ofwat has also been asked to ensure that water and sewerage undertakers,
“manage water resources ‘in sustainable ways’ and reduce demand ‘for water so as to reduce pressure on water resources’”.
That all comes at a cost. No doubt the regulatory formula for the water companies, many of which are now unfortunately owned abroad, will be adjusted to take these duties into account. Let me share my concern. I am not sure whether to worry more that the incentives will be too low for proper investment in our water infrastructure or the opposite—that too much investment will go into resilience and sustainability at a guaranteed high rate of return. Certainly, as my noble friend Lord Crickhowell suggested, it will take time to see how the system pans out.
Major infrastructure always raises such intergenerational issues, as my noble friend Lady Parminter suggested, because the necessary investments are so long term. It is a real dilemma suitable for the forthcoming debate in your Lordships’ House. I support the Bill because it is taking this sector in the right direction. I look forward to my noble friend the Minister’s reply on the three points that I have raised and to participating in Committee.