Schools: Expenditure Per Pupil

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the average spend per pupil in the state-funded education sector for 11 to 18 year-olds; and how that figure compares to the average spend per pupil in the private sector for the same age group.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con)]

My Lords, we estimate that state schools received revenue and capital funding of £6,350 per pupil in 2012-13, compared to independent day schools, which received £11,510. These figures cover pupils aged three to 19 years old, as there is no available breakdown of either figure to cover the requested age range of 11 to 18 year-olds. We cannot provide data relating to 2013-14, as these are not yet available.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that unexpectedly helpful reply. We can accept from what he said that there is clearly a significant difference between the amounts of money being spent on children in maintained schools and those in independent schools. The House has often heard the Minister extol the virtues of the independent schools, and I acknowledge that there is a lot to admire in the best of them, but would he acknowledge that to use as he does the achievements of that privileged and exclusive sector as a stick with which to beat maintained schools is neither fair nor reasonable? Would he further agree that what parents who can afford to pay are buying—and I speak with authority on this matter—is not narrow focus on academic achievement, important as that may be, but a broad curriculum that properly values, for example, sport, music, drama and the humanities, the very subjects now fighting to avoid marginalisation under the Government’s new national curriculum arrangements?

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness is quite right that we cannot make the comparison, for the reasons that she states. I am delighted that she found my Answer helpful; we are always here to be as helpful as we can. I do not seek to use the independent sector as a stick to beat the state sector, but I personally find it quite shocking that 7% of the population go to private schools yet they take more than half the top jobs and more than 40% of the places in our top universities. That is a level of social immobility that I am sure we are all determined to change, without wishing in any way to knock either the state or independent sector.

I agree entirely that all pupils should receive a broad and balanced curriculum. The noble Baroness has vast experience of the performing arts. In their contributions to the “Best Eight” measure, there will be plenty of opportunity for schools to make a showing on a broad and balanced basis with subjects such as drama and music.

Schools: Unqualified Staff

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their reasons for encouraging the employment of unqualified classroom teachers in state-funded schools.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con)]

My Lords, we do not seek to encourage teachers without QTS. Indeed, under this Government, the number of teachers without QTS has gone down by 20% from the level of 18,600 it reached under the previous Government. By the Labour Party’s sole measure for this, we are therefore doing rather well. We merely seek to ensure that our children are taught by the best teachers, not just those with a particular qualification. Under a Labour Government, a teacher who had been teaching brilliantly for 30 years and who had a PhD in his subject but did not have that particular qualification would either have to get it or face the sack. How daft is that?

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on somewhat sidestepping the Question that I put to him. In passing, I also note that he did not refer to the fact that his right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister takes a different view from him on this matter, but perhaps I should not intrude on private grief. The point is that knowledge, enthusiasm and, indeed, natural gifts may be necessary but they are not sufficient in developing professional competence. Does he not accept that, somewhat against the tone that he took in responding to my noble friend Lady Blackstone a couple of weeks ago, to make this point is not to be dogmatic? I do not think that he would disagree with me if we were talking about train drivers or brain surgeons. Will he explain why teachers are an exception?

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, a number of studies, including a notable one in 2007 by McKinsey, have revealed that a more effective system of selecting teachers is based on things such as their level of literacy and numeracy, interpersonal skills, commitment, willingness to learn and passion for their subject. There is no evidence that teachers with QTS teach better than those without it.

Schools: Curriculum

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I agree entirely with the right reverend Prelate. Faith schools are a long-established and highly valued part of our educational establishment, and church schools are, too. Church schools consistently outperform maintained schools; they are very popular and often highly oversubscribed. The applications procedures of many of them do not rely heavily on faith; they have a much wider intake.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister return to the answer that he gave to the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, who asked him an extremely apposite question about which bits of the national curriculum he would be content to see any school ignore? I did not hear him answer that question.

[Lord Nash]

As I said, they must teach English, maths, science, and religious education, and they must follow a PSHE course. We will have a best eight assessment criteria, whereby schools will have to include other subjects. Then we have destinations, because we want our pupils to be work-ready and for them not to turn out as recently evaluated by the OECD—that is, that after 13 years of the Labour Government we have the most illiterate school leavers in Europe and, according to Alan Milburn, the most socially immobile society in Europe.

National Curriculum: Violence against Women

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I agree entirely with my noble friend’s comments. We have asked Ofsted to publish best practice on PSHE, and we encourage all schools to do what the best schools can.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, may I take the noble Lord back to the Answer that he gave to my noble friend Lady Prosser? If I heard him right, he said that he thought that the message did not need to go to all girls. Can he tell the House which girls he thinks do not need to hear this message?

[Lord Nash]

I did not intend to give that impression. If I did, I apologise. I just think that the method of getting the message to all girls needs to be carefully thought out.

Schools: Sport

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I am reluctant to give my noble friend that assurance here and now, but I am very willing to discuss this with him further to see whether we can do whatever we can to alleviate his fears.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the effective use of the money that has been set aside for sport depends on the continued willingness of teachers—not just dedicated PE teachers but other teachers—to support sports activities outside the normal school curriculum and timetable? Will he take this opportunity to pay tribute to all the teachers who put a lot of their own time into making sure that children are able to take advantage of sporting opportunities when they arise?

[Lord Nash]

I agree entirely with the point made by the noble Baroness and will take this opportunity to pay tribute to teachers. The House has heard me say before that I regard teaching as the most noble of professions. All good schools provide a comprehensive range of sports during and after the school day and we are keen to send a message to all schools that we expect them to do the same.

Education: English Baccalaureate Certificate

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, referring back to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Bichard, can the noble Lord confirm that the Government received with enthusiasm Darren Henley’s recent excellent report on cultural education? If so, can he say how the Government plan to implement the report’s recommendations?

[Lord Nash]

We have received this report. We are considering all the responses to the consultation in relation to the EBCs and we certainly will be taking that into account.

Education: Vocational Education

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

It is not just parents and employers who find them a maze, it is Ministers as well. They are extremely bewildering. My noble friend is right that simplification is called for. She will know that the Wolf review called for a great deal of simplification and a thinning out of qualifications. In terms of the value of those qualifications, it is important that we have effective and clear destination measures so that people can make judgments fairly and openly about the quality of the education being offered in different institutions.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider expanding the notion of vocational education just a little bit to include those people whose vocation is in the arts, particularly those who wish to take up careers in the performing arts, for which they have to undertake very long and always very demanding training? Does he think that their needs are being served by the fact that the EBacc does not contain any reference to their subjects?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree very much with the noble Baroness about the importance of those subjects and disciplines and the rigour that they entail. In terms of the EBacc, I think she knows my view that the concentration on the small number of subjects leaves plenty of space for other important subjects that are not those six core subjects. I certainly agree that art, drama and music are important subjects which one would want to see children learning and thriving at.

Adoption Agencies (Panel and Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2012

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 25th July 2012 Grand Committee

I received a briefing yesterday from the NSPCC, which I hope the Minister also has received. I will read only the questions that the NSPCC suggests that I should ask. Given the judiciary’s well documented mistrust of social workers, how will the Government ensure that cases brought before the court recommending adoption will have been properly considered and decided in the absence of scrutiny by adoption panels? How confident are the Government that the proper supervision is in place, or will be in place, to ensure that decisions to adopt are properly considered and made in the absence of scrutiny by adoption panels? How will the Government ensure that the court system is not clogged up with cases where adoption is the wrong decision?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall)]

My Lords, a Division has been called in the Chamber. The Committee will therefore adjourn for 10 minutes and reconvene at 2.47 pm.

UN Convention on the Rights of the Child

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am sure all noble Lords would agree that we want to make sure that adoption processes are delivered in the best interests of the child. As the noble Lord says, the Government are keen to try to accelerate the process because we know that the average length of time it takes for a child to be placed in adoption is more than two and a half years. If it is the right thing for a child, we are very keen that that process should happen as quickly as possible in a sensible way, and to try to address the great disparity in practice between different local authority areas.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, would the Minister be so kind as to return to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey? She specifically asked what the barriers were to the proper scrutiny of Bills that have already been passed into law. I am not sure that the Minister gave us an answer to that question.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Forgive me if I did not deal with that. I do not know that there are barriers in the sense in which the question was put. We need to make sure that post-legislative scrutiny takes these factors into account; and that, while legislation is being drawn up within departments, the requirement to take into account the UNCRC obligations is taken properly into account, and that Ministers and departments are aware of that. Another factor that will help is the new powers which we hope will be given to the Children’s Commissioner, if we can get a legislative slot to do so, which will make the Children’s Commissioner more independent of my department and accountable to Parliament rather than to the department. That will also have a role in shining a spotlight on this.

Young Children: Language Development

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree with the point underlying the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, about the importance of this. Our combination of measures will include the point that he refers to about making sure that Ofsted inspectors get specific training in identifying the problem that he raises about linguistic development. The number of language therapists is going up as well, and I hope that with our range of measures we will make the kind of progress that he would like. Will we be able to catch every child always and give them the help that they want? That is a noble aspiration, but I cannot put my hand on my heart and say that we will, for obvious reasons.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that for many children the problem is, as the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, outlined, not that they have any native problem but that they live in a severely impoverished environment as far as language is concerned? Anticipating a Question further down the Order Paper, does he agree that it is necessary for the Government and local authorities to do everything possible to promote reading programmes for children, and particularly programmes that allow them to be read to, both in and out of school, which will go a very long way to make better that impoverishment?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree entirely with the importance of reading and about the crucial role that parents play in that. It is not just a practical point; I cannot think of anything nicer than the bond between parent and child that comes through reading. I also agree that speaking to one's child is part of this as well. I agree with the importance of all those points.