Welfare Reform Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham]

No, they are not behavioural.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

My Lords, I hesitate to interrupt but noble Lords will see that there is a Division in the Chamber, so the Committee will adjourn now and resume in 10 minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Drake]

I do not accept that defence because tax relief on pension savings is not taking money away from people; it is giving them their tax back.

The other point is that even on ISAs, those who are well off can take every member of their family, their spouse and children, and give them ISAs, thus taking taxpayers’ money for the incentivised advantage that that brings. So the taxpayer supports all sorts of people, some of whom are more worthy than others. On that basis, if the exam question is whether the taxpayer should support someone who has £50,000, I should like to get the whole list of incentivised savings and do some comparative analysis.

The effect of this policy is that people in hard-working families will be disincentivised to save and will face greater risk in managing a labour market that the Government themselves want to deregulate further but do not want to support people in managing that deregulated labour market. As my noble friend Lady Sherlock has said, there is not just the issue of the £16,000. For all those low and moderate-income people who have more than £6,000—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness again, but a Division has been called in the Chamber. The Committee will now adjourn, and resume in 10 minutes.