Agricultural Transition Plan

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am not sure, because I was not involved in any commitments made at the time of that Bill, but I will certainly look into it and contact my noble friend. I should say that soil is absolutely at the heart of our agricultural reforms. We want farmers to use it in a way that means we are protecting it. There are certain areas, such as lowland peat, where the soil is being depleted at an alarming rate. We want to make sure that the measures we have introduced are used to protect and maintain soils; and that soils can be used for all the things we want, such as cleaning up rivers and protecting our environment.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, can I ask the Minister—[Inaudible]—the crabs are safe to eat —[Inaudible]—or are they poisonous?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I can absolutely assure the noble Baroness that they are safe to eat. The FSA advice is that they are safe to eat and that there is no zoonotic effect on human health from crabs that have been found dead and have been examined.

Trade in Animals and Animal Products (Legislative Functions) and Veterinary Surgeons (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2019 Lords Chamber

Finally, paragraph 2.5 of the Explanatory Memorandum goes to the very essence of what I imagine the position will be post Brexit. The provisions under the regulations will set out those animals or products that will require or will be deemed to be exempt from border veterinary checks. In the context of the current debate about the deal that is being proposed, I have to ask where these checks will take place. Will they be at the border or at some other place? I understood that the essence of the Belfast agreement was that there would be no checks on the island of Ireland, either at the border or anywhere else for that matter.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest since I have a farm. I am very concerned about the welfare of live animals being transported. What happens if there are hold-ups at ports, which might happen very easily? Is this included in the regulations? I am pleased to see the amendment to the Motion. I want to add to my voice to those saying that it will be a disaster to go out without a deal. I just wish that the whole Brexit saga would go away.

Veterinary Medicines and Animals and Animal Products (Examination of Residues and Maximum Residue Limits) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, as a tenderfoot in no-deal SIs, I seem to have landed on my feet in a comparatively soft zone. No one I have received briefing from thinks that this, unto itself, is a bad thing. That seems to be the general consensus. Although there are going to be small rising costs—and as we have just heard, there is always the danger that we will be going into a world that is not as good for trade as Europe as it was before—that probably comes with the territory. We will have to accept that, if this SI comes into being; that is the reality of what we have here.

My only question is—and the briefest of thumbnail sketches is all I would require—what would be the alternative? Some idea about what might be happening or what might be the other way might put in context whether this is necessary at the moment. Most of the time, everybody says it is good, but if we do not do this, what else would be available? We had a brief look at the briefing meeting which the noble Lord very kindly arranged. A little hint at what else is available might let us stare a little closer into this pool of reality that comes with these documents.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I have horses. One issue of particular concern relates to the deletion of the requirement to retest horses entering the UK for disease when initial test results are inconclusive. The omission of this requirement suggests diseased horses will potentially be allowed to enter the UK without adequate care or protection for other animals and human health after the UK leaves the EU. Does this mean that we—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

May I help the noble Baroness? I have a slight feeling that this might be in tune with the next SI, on the animal products and arrangements, rather than veterinary medicines, but I may have got that wrong.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

I had 2019.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

They are all 2019.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

This may well come into the trade and animal-related products SI.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

I will repeat it then.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Thank you for the forward notice.

Trade in Animals and Related Products (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

My Lords, I had not intended to visit the Grand Committee on these SIs today because, as the Minister said, there are no major policy changes. I declare an interest—it is not an interest, really—because I am a member of sifting committee B, helping the world go by with statutory instruments.

We published a brief note on these two SIs in our 15th report and I wish to raise a couple of points which I did not know about until earlier this morning. It is not without significance that the medicine SI we debated earlier and this SI started life as negative instruments from Defra, which did not want them debated. That was the view and that is what it is all about. These two SIs were upgraded following the sifting process.

Defra has about 10% of the instruments we have seen and recommended for sifting. It has agreed all the recommendations—I am not complaining about that—but I wish to address a point which was raised with me this morning by Friends of the Earth. While I have been sitting in the Room, I have realised that exchanges have taken place between Defra and Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee officials. I want to put on record that Friends of the Earth have sent a note about several matters, including incoherent amendments and drafting errors.

In relation to the Import of and Trade in Animals and Animal Products (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, the Friends of the Earth note states:

“Regulation 50 … amends the Commission Regulation 2018/659. Regulation 50(13) of the 2019 Regulations omits Article 12(2) of the 2018 Commission Regulation which requires that when checks on live horses coming into the UK return inconclusive, they should be subject to a definitive testing for African Horse Sickness and a list of other diseases listed in Article 11(1) which is retained”.


To cut a long story short, Article 12(2) is omitted and not replaced and there is no mention of it in the Explanatory Memorandum. Is this the case?

While the lawyers from Defra were not available earlier today, I understand that the policy lead believes it has fully copied across into the SI the provision from the EU regulation that requires that when checks on live horses coming into the UK return inconclusive they need to be retested. That is the point I want the Minister put on the record. There should be no weakening of testing arrangements, but if Defra has not copied across something then it will be somewhere else. I found this enormously complicated instrument as I tried to go through the aspects raised by Friends of the Earth.

I shall not go through the details of what Friends of the Earth has said—I am quite happy—and I presume it has sent a copy of the note to the Minister. However, there are references to changes in regulations which do not exist. Regulations 7, 26 and 32 all refer to amendments and points which do not exist; they modify something which does not exist. I am quite happy to leave the note for the Minister and his officials. I do not want to go over issues that would not be suitable here.

The central issue is that some people have looked at this and thought, “Hang on a minute, we have not fully copied across but policy lead thinks we have”. I thought it worth while to raise the point because, if it gets out there, you cannot pull it back if it is wrong. If it can be satisfactorily dealt with here, it would be for everyone’s convenience.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise for my bungle on the previous regulations. These SIs merge into each other well.

An issue of particular concern which has been referred to—I am going to speak to it again—relates to the deletion of the requirement to retest horses entering the UK for disease when initial test results are inconclusive. Omitting this requirement suggests that diseased horses could potentially be allowed to enter the UK without adequate care or protection. This could apply to other animals and humans after the UK leaves the EU. I declare an interest: I have a pony stud, have exported ponies and am waiting for some to be imported.

There are many different infections. Does this mean that we are downgrading standards? This is one of the fears that many people have about leaving the EU. I hope that the Minister will look at this and do something to make it safer for horses entering the UK.

Abattoirs: Non-stun Slaughter

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The noble Lord has raised a number of points. I understand that people in the Muslim community eat more sheepmeat than the rest of the British population and that the number of Muslims who are looking to have non-stunned halal meat has also increased because of enhanced religious observance. As I say, with this survey we want to look at the reasons behind this. Obviously, our intention is to allow an exemption for religious communities, but not that this meat should go into the wider market.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the horrifically cruel treatment of sheep in a slaughterhouse near Thirsk? The animals were not stunned, rather they were kicked and mutilated; what they went through is really horrifying. The men involved will be tried in court in Leeds very soon. Can the Minister say when CCTV will be operational in all slaughterhouses?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we intend to lay legislation on this matter very shortly. I wish I could give the noble Baroness and the House a precise date, but we want to bring it forward as soon as possible. CCTV will be installed in all areas where live animals are present. We want animals to have a good life and a respectful end to their lives. I think this will advance that.

Animal Welfare Offences

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, what the noble Baroness has said is absolutely on the dot: we need to drive down on the illegal smuggling of puppies. That is why I endorse what the Dogs Trust has done in working with Kent County Council, Border Force and the transport companies. We absolutely want to rout out the illegal smuggling of puppies. That is one of the reasons why it is so important that we invite people who wish to have pets to consider rehoming and make sure that, if they want to buy a puppy, they see it interacting with its mother—look to those sources and do not go for puppies that very often arrive in this country ill.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us whether there are going to be CCTV cameras in slaughterhouses to help prevent cruelty?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness has suggested, we have just closed our consultation on the mandatory nature of CCTV in all slaughterhouses. We think that this is important: we have been consulting with industry and stakeholders because we think that this is necessary. We will bring forward secondary legislation on this matter before Parliament early next year.

Agriculture: Foreign Workers

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, that is precisely why the Home Office and Defra have asked the Migration Advisory Committee to look at this with regard to the long-term needs of an important sector of our agricultural industry. That is one of the things I am looking forward to hearing about. As I said, to put it in context, between 2007 and 2013 the only element of the scheme was to deal with the Romanian and Bulgarian situation.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest in farming. Will the Minister make it easier for seasonal workers to come in from Australia and New Zealand to clip sheep? Is he aware that my sheep are still waiting to be clipped because my British sheep clippers are getting older and they have a big backlog this year?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, that is one of the things we will want to look at as we leave the European Union.

Equine Welfare Standards

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, and thank him for securing this short but important debate on equine welfare. I hope that Lady Higgins will soon be better. I declare an interest as I have a highland pony stud and a small rural riding centre in North Yorkshire.

A great deal of work goes into looking after equines and it is not cheap. There is the upkeep of the buildings, grassland management, farrier bills, staff wages, vets’ bills, fodder and insurance, as well as passport and microchip costs, and there should always be respect for the animals, even if they are difficult. All horses, ponies, donkeys and related animals have to have a horse passport, which identifies an animal by its height and species and states whether it can be used for food at the end of its life. Last week I signed four passports for my last year’s foals. I hope that they will never go for meat.

The Highland Pony Society used to have a better system, as foals were registered as progeny and then had full registration at the age of three, when they had the correct colour and height. Many highlands change their foal colour, which means that the passports have to be corrected when they are fully grown. What suggestions do the Government have to improve the welfare crisis and deal with the increase in fly-grazing and fly-grazed horses? Has the legislation which recently passed through Parliament not helped?

I strongly support the proposal for CCTV to be mandatory in UK slaughterhouses to monitor whether welfare standards are adhered to. There is no doubt that cameras make a big difference in detecting crimes of all sorts. All animals should have both their passport and their microchip checked on arrival and be respected with kindness at the time of death. I hope that the Minister agrees with that. Would legislation be required to make CCTV mandatory? I hope the Minister will give us an answer tonight.

Each year, around 50% of veterinary surgeons registered to practise in the UK are from overseas, with the vast majority coming from the EU. I have often had student vets on two weeks’ work experience to learn about horses. One of the best came from the Dick veterinary college in Edinburgh and was Russian. I hope that foreign students will not be restricted because of Brexit. In the UK we have some very important animal charities. It is essential that we work together to promote high standards for equidae in Europe. I hope that the UK will not become isolated and that we will continue to be part of these important initiatives.

I have been taking part in a grass sickness research project. Grass sickness is a most horrible condition and claims many equines in various parts of the country. We live in hope that a cure will be found one day.

Forest Holidays: Forestry Commission Stake

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, as I said, I discussed this matter this morning with the chairman of the Forestry Commission. As he said, the reality is that only a limited number of sites are available within the public forest estate, principally because much of the land is either ancient woodland or SSSI or protected in some other way.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, what can be done about the wild boar in the Forest of Dean eating lambs? Might this not be dangerous to people on holiday?

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, that is an interesting question. It is important that we retain visibility of the trees as well as the forest. Primary responsibility for management of feral boar lies with local communities and individual landowners. This means that local land managers are free to control wild boar as they see fit, as long as that control is carried out in a humane and legal manner.

Control of Horses Bill

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Friday 27th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I must declare my interests as I have a Highland pony stud and a small rural riding centre in north Yorkshire; I am also a member of the NFU. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, on her clear explanation of the Control of Horses Bill. When I met the Member for York Outer, Julian Sturdy MP, who took this Bill through the other place, I told him that it could not be in better and safer hands in your Lordships’ House than in those of the noble Baroness and the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, who is the “Minister of the horse”.

I am interested in this Bill because it is to do with animal welfare. We are told that fly-grazing appears to have increased significantly in recent years, and charities estimate that 3,000 horses are being fly-grazed in England alone. What is the reason for this? Is it because of the economic state of some parts of the country, or is it that horses and ponies get into the hands of people who do not understand what is needed, so they turn them away when they cannot cope? There may be many different reasons, as has already been stated.

I would like to ask the Minister for some assurances to be given to the owners of horses when unexpected things happen. The Control of Horses Bill will enable local authorities and the owners and occupiers of land to deal more quickly with horses that are left on their land—after four working days as opposed to the current 14 days—and will provide more options for dealing with unclaimed horses, including private sale, gifting them to a charity and humane euthanasia.

If horses knock down fences or gates are left open by walkers and horses escape, they might be put into someone else’s field for safety reasons. Would that be classed as fly-grazing? Horses might be stolen and more time may be needed to try to find them. The overzealous RSPCA officer or local council official might not provide enough time for desperate owners to look for their horses. Some terrible things have been done to loved horses by cruel and delinquent people. With such a shortage of police officers in rural areas, time must be given to find lost horses. When I came to live in Yorkshire, there used to be two policemen in our local village; now there is none, and most of the police stations in country towns either have closed or are closing, so it takes time to get hold of a police officer. I keep my fields locked because walkers have left the gates open so many times, but at times horses will either jump over fences or knock them down.

Some horses are very valuable, while as has been said, others have very little monetary worth. Each year in my area we have Gypsies en route for Appleby Fair. They often graze their horses on the side of the road. Some people might consider that to be fly-grazing.

I hope that everything will be made clear in guidance and regulations so that innocent people are protected from overzealous officers getting it wrong. We heard from the noble Baroness that horses had been turned out into a ploughed field. When they were found, they were nearly dead, and in fact, one had died. I should also like to ask the Minister about the current situation as regards the database.

I hope that this Bill will help with the problem of fly-grazing and that it will have a speedy journey through your Lordships’ House.