British Indian Ocean Territory: Sovereignty
Debate between Baroness Ludford and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The Statement will be provided in due course. You will not find anybody in this House who gives less regard to what Jeremy Corbyn thinks than I do, although there is clearly some stiff competition.
The trust fund is important, because it is right that there is some acknowledgement and a fund to support Chagossians. I believe it will be held by the Mauritians. It is important to understand that there is a range of views about this within the Chagossian communities. There is not one voice; Chagossians living in different parts of the world—in the UK, Mauritius and the Seychelles—do not all agree on this. I have a great deal of sympathy with what the noble Lord says about the Chagossian communities having been badly treated over many decades. That is undoubtedly true, but it is not right to suggest to them that there is a way for them to resettle Diego Garcia or a straightforward way of holding some sort of process, when this treaty has been forged between the two sovereign Governments of Mauritius and the UK. This is a unique situation. We have prioritised our national security in this process. You can have only one priority, and that is our national security. That is right, but it does not mean that we cannot acknowledge and regret some of the issues that the noble Lord brings to our attention.
Baroness Ludford (LD)
My Lords, in the debate on Monday I had the chance to namecheck the Chagos all-party parliamentary group, which I think was founded in 2008. I have been involved in it for a lot of that time. I think it would recognise that this treaty is the first time the Chagossians have secured the right to visit and the possibility of resettlement in Chagos, which the all-party group has long campaigned for. I do not often agree with the right honourable Member for Islington North, whom I stood against in 1992, but he is president of our all-party group and I have to pay tribute to him; he has long worked to champion the Chagossians when successive Governments have ignored them.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
What is useful in the noble Baroness’s contribution is that she draws attention to the fact that, under this treaty, Chagossians will be able to visit the outer islands and resettle, should that be feasible, with co-operation from the Government of Mauritius. That is by no means a straightforward undertaking when there is a complete lack of services. We should not talk about it lightly. There will also be the ability to visit Diego Garcia. These visits stopped some years ago, so their recommencement will be a welcome development.
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe
Debate between Baroness Ludford and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(7 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Ricketts, for his question. I do not know precisely why the nominations for this delegation have not yet been resolved. I believe that we on this side have resolved the issues; I do not know whether the noble Lord on the Front Bench opposite can shed some light. I understand that a change of Government, new roles and a change of leader will inevitably cause some delay, but I hope we can get this resolved very soon.
Baroness Ludford (LD)
My Lords, could the Minister help us any more with any speculation as to what she thinks might be causing the delay? It is really not a good look that we have not yet got our act together to nominate the Westminster side of the parliamentary assembly with the European Parliament. It has been quite a few months since the general election. Some of us are very hopeful about the reset, and I am sure the Prime Minister does not want to keep meeting his EU counterparts with them saying, “Where are your Westminster people?”
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The delay, I believe, is not something that is within my control, if I can put it that way. We are keen to get this moving. As soon as we receive the names from the Opposition in the other place then we will be in a position to move this forward. We want to engage with this on a cross-party basis, so being sympathetic and patient is the right approach. However, I am sure that noble Lords on both sides will have noted the eagerness to make progress from the noble Baroness and will take that into account.
Israel-Gaza Conflict: Arrest Warrants
Debate between Baroness Ludford and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(8 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The helpfulness or otherwise is not really at question. The ICC is independent of the United Kingdom Government, and rightly so. We will comply with our obligations as a member of the ICC.
Baroness Ludford (LD)
My Lords, I think the House deserves an answer from the Government to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, particularly as we have a debate later on the rule of law. So how do the Government interpret Section 23 of the International Criminal Court Act 2001, which is domestic law? The ICC and the Rome statute is one issue, but the other issue is domestic law, which seems pretty clear. The Minister batted it to the courts. I think it is important to know the Government’s legal interpretation of Section 23.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I do not think I batted it away. I gave an accurate description of the Government’s position. It is not unprecedented for two pieces of law to cut across each other. The right way to resolve this is through the courts. Unlike some Members opposite, although happily by no means all, we accept our obligations under international law.
British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations
Debate between Baroness Ludford and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(9 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Ludford (LD)
My Lords, I join others in the congratulations on the partial addressing of this gross humanitarian injustice. I congratulate the previous Government for initiating and the present Government for concluding the treaty. Has the Minister had to deal with completely unnecessary alarm, created in Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, by the hypocritical noises that have come out of the Opposition Benches? Have the Government been able to completely address those unnecessary concerns?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I have been disappointed, as I said in my earlier remarks. We would not have played political games with the sovereignty of our overseas territories, but we have been able to offer the reassurances that were needed. We have been in close contact with the Governments in both Gibraltar and the Falklands, and I think they understand what is really going on here. I hope we have been able to offer the assurances that the noble Baroness refers to.