Brexit: Negotiations

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Again, I am afraid that I disagree with the noble Lord. This deal is bringing back autonomy to this country, and it should be supported.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The EU proposal for a Northern Ireland-only customs solution has indeed been dropped and replaced by a UK-wide temporary customs arrangement which protects the integrity of the UK. However, there are regulatory elements necessary to avoid a hard border that will apply to Northern Ireland only, including product standards on industrial goods and agricultural products, as well as regulations strictly necessary to maintain the single electricity market on the island of Ireland. There are already some regulatory differences between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords—

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The House will know that there is a limited amount of time. We ought to hear from the Liberal Democrat Back Benches.

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords, the Statement says that,

“the broad terms of our future relationship”,

have been agreed in the outline political declaration. How can the Minister justify that assertion when that very short outline is nothing more than a shopping list? There are hardly any verbs in it. For instance, on fisheries, which my noble friend mentioned, it talks about the aim of the,

“establishment of a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares”.

That tells us nothing about the detail, which is a crucial issue. Can the Minister explain how on earth we are going to get from this to something more substantive in the next week or so? What is the process? At the moment there is no flesh on the bones.

October European Council

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I hope that the noble Lord will be pleased to hear that in fact at the Council there was a lot of good will towards the UK and recognition around the table that in the past weeks there has been huge progress in agreeing the withdrawal agreement. The fact that I have made two Statements in the last two weeks discussing Northern Ireland in some detail shows that we are not hiding the fact that we still have an impasse in this situation. The Statements have been quite clear about that. What we are absolutely committed to, along with our EU partners, and particularly our Irish partners, is finding a way through, because as we said in the Statement this one issue is outstanding. We want a withdrawal agreement and an implementation period and we want a strong and positive relationship going forward. So I can assure the noble Lord that we are not taking things lightly; we are absolutely committed, with our partners, to cracking this very difficult nut, as he rightly says. We will do that and we will get a good deal with the EU, which is what we are intending to do.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, it is surely not good enough for the Leader of the House to reply to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that she cannot answer his question. You do not need to be an insider in the negotiations to realise that it is complete nonsense to say that an extension of the transition period is an alternative to the existence of the backstop, whether it is Northern Ireland-specific or UK-wide. They are apples and pears, very obviously, and I want to press her on this point. It is a longer time, surely, to find a permanent relationship that makes the backstop redundant. Why do the Government continue to create smoke and mirrors, which presumably is for internal consumption in her own party but does not give honest, real explanations?

Secondly, if the Government want the temporary customs arrangement to be written into the withdrawal agreement as legally binding, how is that commensurate with their professed desire to maintain the ability to make a sovereign choice to exit from the temporary customs arrangement? If it is legally binding in the withdrawal agreement, as the Government want, how can you make a sovereign choice to abandon it?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I do not think it is appropriate for me to discuss the details of the negotiation. I am sorry that the noble Baroness disagrees, but we are at a crucial time and I do not think that my making statements from the Dispatch Box about some of these delicate issues will be particularly helpful. We want to achieve a deal, and I hope she understands that and would want to help me ensure that I play my part by not saying things that would get in the way of a good negotiation and a good outcome.

Brexit: Negotiations

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 15th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I disagree with the right reverend Prelate. We have made real progress on the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration on our future relationship. We have been clear, as we were in the Statement, that there are a couple of outstanding issues that we need to resolve, but we are moving forward and remain confident we will get a good deal for both sides.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, can the noble Baroness the Leader of the House explain how the furious No. 10 spin operation on speed of the last 24 hours has helped to achieve serious, calm progress in the negotiations? I read in the Evening Standard this afternoon of the Prime Minister hitting out at a secret new plan for a failsafe to avoid a hard border in Ireland. This is nothing new. It is just that the UK Government have failed to convince Brussels that their plans—we do not actually know what they are—will work. There is nothing new from what the Prime Minister agreed to last December. How does all the journalistic noise we have heard in the last 24 hours help? Would the Government not do better—as my noble friend Lord Newby suggested—by getting on with providing some facts, suggestions and concrete proposals?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been consistently clear that we are committed to avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. That is not new. We have been consistently clear we want to preserve the economic integrity of the UK in all scenarios. That is not new. That is what we have been saying to the EU throughout. And we have been clear from the beginning: the backstop proposal is not acceptable to us. As the Statement makes clear, the EU have responded positively by agreeing to explore a UK-wide customs solution, and that is what we will continue to discuss over the coming days and weeks.

NATO Brussels Summit 2018

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are very clear that we have played a leading role in NATO and will continue to do so. We will obviously be looking to have a deep security partnership with Europe. We do many things bilaterally with the French and will continue to do so.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, in that specific context, the UK has always been a little stand-offish about EU defence co-operation, even though it is certainly set within NATO, and it has cold-shouldered Permanent Structured Cooperation, known as PESCO. However, I understand that a few weeks ago Defence Ministers agreed to support the European Intervention Initiative, or EII for short—there are a lot of acronyms—put forward by President Macron. I believe that the UK was one of the nine EU countries that signed up to this but I do not think we have heard a great deal about it. It is about joint European action in the event of emergencies and crises—a sort of coalition or club of the willing. Can the noble Baroness tell us a little more about it and will the Government advertise it? It is a good example of the UK’s willingness to take part in European defence co-operation, about which they are sometimes a little shy.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. I cannot remember exactly when— I have repeated so many Statements recently—but I referred to it in a recent previous Statement, so there is some more information there. She is right that we were an initial signatory to the letter, along with, I think, eight other European countries. As I have explained to the House, I do not have the details with me today but I am happy to write to the noble Baroness. However, it is something that we discussed in response to a Statement a few weeks ago.

Exiting the EU

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am sure that the noble Lord will be pleased to know that Malcolm Turnbull has welcomed the fact that we want to talk about joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership after we have completed our exit from the EU. There are certainly countries which are very keen to have trade relationships with us. In relation to his question about dispute resolution, where there is a dispute, it will be raised in a joint committee, which can refer a question to the CJEU only with the agreement of both parties. If the joint committee cannot resolve the dispute, it will go to independent arbitration. That mechanism respects our red line that the court of one party cannot resolve disputes between the two and the EU’s red line that the CJEU has to be the ultimate arbiter of EU law.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, can the Leader of the House confirm that there is a fig tree at Chequers? This position is one long series of fig leaves. It is surely a pretence that Westminster could make a sovereign choice to depart from an EU rule with only modest consequences, when in fact the whole house of cards in a legally binding treaty would collapse. It is surely a pretence that the autonomy of the UK’s legal order would be maintained, when in practice the ECJ would at the very least severely constrain it. Lastly, it is surely a pretence that the complicated and baroque customs model would be business-friendly. In fact, it is heavy with red tape and is a smugglers’ charter. Far from being a soft Brexit, is this not a fictional kind of Brexit, which the people should be able to reject in favour of remain?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I completely disagree with everything that the noble Baroness has just said.

Brexit Negotiations

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, in respect of that quote that the Minister has just given from paragraph 49 on the rules that support north/south co-operation and the all-Ireland economy, have the Government done a sectoral analysis or impact assessment on which aspects of the single market would not be covered by the commitment to “full alignment”? Presumably, it is a very wide field, covering agriculture, sanitary standards, consumer protection, transport, competition and environmental standards—I believe that about 142 issues were identified as being covered by north/south co-operation in Ireland. Which single market rules would not be covered by the promised full alignment? If they are rather small in number, would it not be simpler all round to stay in the single market and customs union, instead of things being so complicated?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that the noble Baroness’s question is predicated on us not reaching a suitable outcome that we all want. I just do not accept that.

European Council

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his congratulations. They do not happen very often so I shall attempt to respond positively. I do not think it odd at all that our closest allies in relation to Iran are France and Germany. We are an international, global country and we have strong relationships across the world. Our three countries are all committed to the Iran deal, and it is working. The International Atomic Energy Agency has released eight reports on Iran’s nuclear programme since the implementation day of the joint comprehensive plan, all of which confirmed that Iran is fulfilling its obligations under the deal. The Prime Minister could not have been stronger in making that message clear and we were very pleased that the Council built on the joint statement made last week by the Prime Minister, Chancellor Merkel and President Macron, which reiterated our firm commitment to the nuclear deal. We will continue to support that.

In relation to the noble Lord’s second question, as I said in response to my noble friend Lord Lamont, the highest probability is that we will get a good deal but it is only right that we prepare for a no-deal situation. What we cannot and will not do is to publish information which will undermine our ability to negotiate that best deal for Britain.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Government claim that they are committed to European security arrangements and the free flow of data. How will they ensure that those continue if they pull out of reciprocity instruments, the European Charter of Fundamental Rights and the EU court’s jurisdiction? Those moves will all prejudice the vital, mutual recognition and adequacy assessments on which continued co-operation is in fact conditional.

Brexit: UK Plans

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the noble Lord himself said, we have published two White Papers today, setting out our objectives for both the new customs arrangements and our future trade policy. Of course, we have a continuing dialogue with businesses involved in this and we will make sure that their voices are heard and any issues that they have are reflected in the work we do. But that is the reason we have published a White Paper, to make sure that that discussion is had.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps the Leader of the House could help me understand. There appears to be a contradiction between pages 1 and 3 of the Statement. On page 1 there is an insistence that,

“when we leave the European Union we will no longer be members of its single market or its customs union”;

then on page 3 it is asserted that the framework for the transition or implementation period would be,

“the existing structure of EU rules and regulations”.

That surely must mean the single market and the customs union. So how are we going to leave the single market and the customs union and stay in them in the transition period? I would welcome enlightenment.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will be leaving the EU and its institutions in March 2019 but the fact is, at that point neither the UK nor the EU will be in a position to implement smoothly many of the detailed arrangements that will underpin this relationship. We want a strictly time-limited implementation period based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations, during which the UK and EU would continue to have access to one another’s markets on current terms and the UK would take part in existing security measures. Because we want our departure to be as smooth as possible, it does not make sense to make people and businesses plan for two sets of changes in the relationship between the UK and the EU, and we should concentrate all our negotiating time on what matters: the long-term future relationship.

G20

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I made quite clear in my responses to the noble Baroness, we are at a very early stage. Working groups have been set up and discussions are going on, but we are at an early stage, and we shall continue to talk to the Americans.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement omitted something that was in the G20 leaders’ declaration—nothing to do with Brexit, for once: the growing threat that antimicrobial resistance represents to public health and economic development. The leaders made various recommendations, of which an important one was a new R&D collaboration hub and examining how to give incentives to encourage new antibiotics on to the market. I declare an interest in that my husband survived—just—a very serious case of sepsis. More than 40,000 people a year in this country die of sepsis. He also chairs a London health trust which deals with TB patients. Half of TB patients with resistance are in G20 countries. What are the Government going to do to follow up on that aspect of the summit?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. We made clear at the summit the imperative to tackle global health threats such as antimicrobial resistance, that research funding alone will not solve the problem and that we must in parallel develop incentives for pharmaceutical companies to bring new drugs to market. The publication of the G20-commissioned report, Tackling Antimicrobial Resistance, Ensuring Sustainable R&D, means that we have a clear way forward looking to the Argentinian G20 presidency next year and beyond. We will continue to work with our international partners on that. We have also committed £50 million towards a global AMR innovation fund, which will target investment in underinvested areas of research and development.

European Council

Baroness Ludford Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. The Government believe that we have set out a fair and serious offer. We have put a detailed proposal forward which will now be for negotiation. The next round of negotiation and discussion begins next month. We now have a fair and serious offer with which to begin our discussions.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness was keen to say that the residence documentation that EU citizens will be required to hold is not an ID card but a residence card backed by a biometric database. If and when EU citizens say that it is discriminatory to require them to hold ID cards, does this herald the backdoor introduction of a national ID card scheme, which was one of the issues which caused Secretary of State David Davis to resign in 2008, calling it an,

“insidious and relentless erosion of civil liberties”?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I have been pretty clear that we have said that once we leave the EU there will need to be a new settled status and documentation. I have been very clear as well that we have not specified exactly what that will be. However, I am sure that everyone will be pleased to know that the administration of the system will be streamlined and as user-friendly as possible, and that we intend to improve the process and remove some of the technical requirements currently needed to obtain permanent residence under EU rules, such as not requiring anyone to demonstrate that they have held comprehensive sickness insurance.