Employment Rights Bill

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Burns

Report stage
Wednesday 23rd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

That is what I said.

We are simply returning to the situation as it was pre-2016. I would add that the unions are already specifically regulated in the requirement to have a separate fund for spending on political purposes that is subject to many rules. There is no such requirement on many other membership organisations.

I turn to the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Davies of Brixton relating to Clause 62 on equality representatives. Trade unions have long fought for equality. We recognise that equality reps have a key role to play in raising awareness and promoting equal rights for all members, as well as developing collective policies and practices that will enable organisations to realise all the benefits of being an equal opportunities employer. New Section 168B(2)(a) therefore provides for the broad purpose for equality representatives to take paid time off for carrying out duties

“for the purpose of promoting the value of equality in the workplace”.

In addition, new Section 168B(2)(c) makes provision for

“providing information, advice or support to qualifying members of the trade union in relation to matters relating to equality in the workplace”,

and new Section 168(2)(d) makes provision for

“consulting with the employer on matters relating to equality in the workplace”.

Finally, equality representatives may also be eligible for time off under Section 168 of the 1992 Act, which includes time off for

“negotiations with the employer related to or connected with matters falling within section 178 … in … which the trade union is recognised by the employer”.

We believe that these measures are broad enough to include a range of activities, which encompass collective bargaining, negotiating with employers and representing members. I ask the noble Lord, Lord Burns, to withdraw Amendment 147.

[Lord Burns (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all who have contributed to the debate, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, and the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe of Epsom, who added their names to the amendment. I am also very grateful for the meetings I have had with the Minister. However, I am disappointed that I have failed to move her thinking in any serious way on this issue.

I welcome the support of the use of active consent in making contributions to political funds. The noble Baroness, Lady Fox, made a very good point that unions should not be frightened of giving members a clear choice. From those who have disagreed we have heard very little in the way of new arguments for ditching the 2016 compromise, other than a desire to persuade members to contribute more by relying on their inertia.

I enjoyed the history lesson from the noble Lord, Lord Barber. I agree entirely that it is quite astonishing; as I discovered at the time of the committee, political funds were illegal prior to 1909. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, about the need for an agreement on party funding. The issue is: which is the right mechanism until then? Is it the 2016 compromise or the 1945 model? The noble Lord, Lord Monks, said he is worried that in 10 years’ time all members will be covered by the 2016 compromise. He will not be surprised that I do not think that this is necessarily a bad thing.

I remain bewildered by the desire to go ahead with the proposal in the Bill. I do not think the compromise should last for ever, but it is surely preferable to the 1945 version. I am very disappointed that there is no appetite for finding a way of dealing with this that gives some hope that it will stand the test of time. I have heard no recognition that views on the ethics of this type of choice have moved on since 1945 and that the arrival of a digital world increases the options for dealing with this in a different way. Instead, what we have is a desire to go back to the 1945 mechanism. Therefore, I would like to seek the opinion of the House.