Ivory Bill

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Earl of Kinnoull

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 10th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, I shall be brief. I will speak to Amendment 31, which is purely a probing amendment. Following Second Reading, it struck me that the success of this Bill would very much depend on the take-up rate of the use of the register, so my amendment is aimed at trying to probe a bit of that. I noted that in the Bill, while plenty of powers are given to the Secretary of State to charge fees for registration, there is no duty alongside that, telling the authorities what they should be trying to do. My amendment is aimed at trying to put a bit of duty alongside the powers.

I notice that the success of curbing drink-driving in the UK has been very much driven by the fact that people in the country now expect people not to drink-drive. We need to ensure that nothing stands in the way of people developing a feeling that ivory has a special and difficult thing associated with it. Therefore, they should comply with this law enthusiastically, because it will help the problem that we have all been talking about. I do not think I can add any more.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly on these two amendments. I think we all accept that the cost of registration should not be prohibitive. Equally, I have to say that I think a blanket fee of £5 is unrealistic. It should not, however, be used as a money-raising opportunity, as some government fee systems have been found to do. In his letter to us after Second Reading, the Minister made it clear that the fees would be based on a cost-recovery calculation. Fine, but he went on to say that the calculation would be based on the cost of building a new IT system. At that point, alarm bells started to ring. I am sure that the Government would accept that they have a rather shaky reputation for delivering IT systems on budget.

I therefore hope that the Minister will take this opportunity to reassure us that the cost will not be prohibitive and that it will take into account the ability to pay of a wide range of potential traders who might want to use the system, taking on board the points that have been made that they will not always be the professionals and those who are able to pay large fees.

We have referred to the registration scheme several times and I know that the Minister says that we will have further details of it, but it would be helpful if he could clarify the timescale for it. Will we definitely have more details before Report?

Flood Reinsurance (Scheme and Scheme Administrator Designation) Regulations 2015

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Earl of Kinnoull

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Grand Committee

[The Earl of Kinnoull]

Can I make a point about something that the noble Baroness has just said? This was that modern British insurers might in some way not be using up-to-date flood maps. That is certainly not the case. We have some strict regulators in a pile of quite aggressive rating agencies to make sure that the systems that we use are robust. Our peers are pretty interested, because in the way that the mutualisation of the insurance sector works, if the next-door man goes bust, as, say, the independent insurance company does, others will end up picking up the bill. The noble Baroness’s other points are very interesting, but that point is a weak one.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

I am very pleased to hear that, but I noted that some of the evidence I looked through, which was received during the consultation period, raised that as a concern. If we can clarify that there is a standard flood map system I am more than happy to hear that. I am sure it will be of some relief. I am sure that the Minister will also clarify that.

I was talking about who was included and excluded and the designation of domestic properties. The Minister will know that there was some concern, during the course of the Water Bill, about those who were excluded from this provision, in particular the poorest and most vulnerable—those in tenanted and rented properties, which are currently excluded from the scheme. It does not seem right that the same property or adjoining properties could have access to different standards of flood insurance purely on the basis of the status of those who live in the property. Will the Minister clarify whether that is his understanding? Will he also clarify whether farmhouses are to be excluded from the scheme? As he will know, this is of some concern to the National Farmers’ Union. They are, after all, primarily residential properties, even if the farmhouse acts as a business address for the farm. I would be grateful to hear his comments on that.

Finally, we all have sympathy with the householders caught up in the major floods of recent years, but it is important that this scheme does not reinforce complacency in the sector. There is a real risk of increased flooding from the effects of climate change. This scheme needs to be combined with drivers of behaviour change among consumers, businesses and government. The Minister referred to that. It is crucial that future flood management policies take a stronger line against building homes in high-risk areas, while developing sustainable land use plans and restoring flood plains. I hope that the Minister can reassure me that Flood Re will take these responsibilities seriously as part of its brief, and that the Environment Agency will receive sufficient funding to oversee those objectives effectively. I look forward to his response.